 Topic: Elemental Sword Autocasting |
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EdgarGrimfang
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
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 Post subject: Elemental Sword Autocasting |
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For some reason or another, in the updates, the Elemental Sword autocasts all four magic bolts simultaneously. I've read the code over several times, and this is not as it should function. If you look at the pacing of the code, this is not as it should be...
But breaking it down like this could maybe shed light on the problem (or my misunderstanding.)
ORIGINAL CODE FROM RMS
{ bonus bStr,2; bonus bInt,4; bonus bDex,1; bonus bMatk,95; bonus2 bAddEle,Ele_Neutral,10; bonus3 bAutoSpell,"MG_COLDBOLT",3,50; bonus4 bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_COLDBOLT","MG_FIREBOLT",3,1000; bonus4 bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_FIREBOLT","MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT",3,10000; bonus4 bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT","WZ_EARTHSPIKE",3,10000; },{},{}
Stat Bonuses/Percentile Modifiers: This is as it should be.
{ bonus bStr,2; bonus bInt,4; bonus bDex,1; bonus bMatk,95; bonus2 bAddEle,Ele_Neutral,10;
Bolt Sequence 1: The coding of autocasting "Cold Bolt"
bonus3 bAutoSpell,"MG_COLDBOLT",3,50; bonus4
Bolt Sequence 2: The following bolt after the autocast of "Cold Bolt"
bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_COLDBOLT","MG_FIREBOLT",3,1000; bonus4
Bolt Sequence 3: Triggering from "Firebolt"
bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_FIREBOLT","MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT",3,10000; bonus4
Bolt Sequence 4: Triggering from "Lightning Bolt"
bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT","WZ_EARTHSPIKE",3,10000; },{},{}
Now as it seems, the coding states that each bolt shall fire off sequentially, as it's predecessor bolt is cast. If it were to suggest all four bolts should cast at the same time, then wouldn't the code be written in such a way that all four bolts would hence trigger from auto-attacks?
| Quote: | bonus3 bAutoSpell,"MG_COLDBOLT",3,50; bonus4
bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_COLDBOLT","MG_FIREBOLT",3,1000; bonus4 |
As it is bolded (I need not show the other lines of code as the point is redundant right now) It would seem the bolts each are primed off each other. Doing some testing of my own with friends, almost any class stacking INT/Matk Mods and an elemental sword can nearly outdo a "Combat Professor" archtype in terms of magical melee DPS, with the effects being as they are now.
Like I said earlier, I admit that I could be wrong, but just going over the coding, this is what it seems like it should be, and that is bolts firing off in a sequential order and not all simultaneously.
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| Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:20 pm |
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GlitchyVirus
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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I'm having trouble understanding your logic...but I'll try to help.
First of all, the coding on RMS, as I read it, is wrong. Notice that bothing LB and ES have "10000" in the code, yet FB only has "1000"? I believe this was the bug that was causing the sword to act the way it did before the fix.
Second, the bolts do NOT fire "simultaneously", but rather they cast too quickly for the eye to keep track. The proof of this is in Maya card. Maya either reflects an ENTIRE skill, or NONE at all. When the sword is use against a Maya, however, you can see that sometimes you get reflected with one or two of the bolts, while the other is hit with them as intended (i.e. Maya did not proc on those bolts). Since Maya reflects or does not reflect each bolt separately, it proves that they are not really simultaneous casts, but rather each in succession extremely quickly.
Thirdly, yes, you are right, many classes can match or outright exceed a prof's damage output, though the classes that come to mind are Stalker, SinX, and Super Novice. Stalker and Super Novice are both able to learn level 10 Cold Bolt, and with the 9 bolts from the sword, they can easily come close to a prof's damage output, but not with the randomness of Double Casting. SinX, on the other hand, goes FAR beyond just 19 or 20 bolts. With 2 swords, the proc of one sword affects the other. Hence, for each bolt that is cast, there are TWO bolts casted from the next bolt in line.
1 Cold Bolt
2 Fire Bolts (Each sword contributes one autocast)
4 Lightning Bolts (Each sword contributes another autocast, for each fire bolt)
8 Earth Spikes (Again)
1+2+4+8=15 autocasts. HOWEVER, each autocast yields 3 bolts, hence one cycle gives you 45 (!) bolts in less than a second.
I discovered this when the sword was first introduced, and I KNEW I would be using this build on my SinX, and was SEVERELY hurt when I realized the sword did not work. But anyway...
Lastly, I assure you the coding and behavior as it is now is correct. I have tested several servers, including the RMS Test Server, and the behavior is what it is now; that is, it is certainly meant to cast all 4 bolts. Also, in my report to Luzz, I provided (what seemed to be) a detailed breakdown of how the sword works on iRO from a GM's explaination shown here if you scroll down to Atum's post.
For more information, you can look at my report found here.
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| Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:08 pm |
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TrueItachi135
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 125
Location: Ohio
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| Post subject: Re: Elemental Sword Autocasting |
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| EdgarGrimfang wrote: | For some reason or another, in the updates, the Elemental Sword autocasts all four magic bolts simultaneously. I've read the code over several times, and this is not as it should function. If you look at the pacing of the code, this is not as it should be...
But breaking it down like this could maybe shed light on the problem (or my misunderstanding.)
ORIGINAL CODE FROM RMS
{ bonus bStr,2; bonus bInt,4; bonus bDex,1; bonus bMatk,95; bonus2 bAddEle,Ele_Neutral,10; bonus3 bAutoSpell,"MG_COLDBOLT",3,50; bonus4 bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_COLDBOLT","MG_FIREBOLT",3,1000; bonus4 bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_FIREBOLT","MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT",3,10000; bonus4 bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT","WZ_EARTHSPIKE",3,10000; },{},{}
Stat Bonuses/Percentile Modifiers: This is as it should be.
{ bonus bStr,2; bonus bInt,4; bonus bDex,1; bonus bMatk,95; bonus2 bAddEle,Ele_Neutral,10;
Bolt Sequence 1: The coding of autocasting "Cold Bolt"
bonus3 bAutoSpell,"MG_COLDBOLT",3,50; bonus4
Bolt Sequence 2: The following bolt after the autocast of "Cold Bolt"
bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_COLDBOLT","MG_FIREBOLT",3,1000; bonus4
Bolt Sequence 3: Triggering from "Firebolt"
bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_FIREBOLT","MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT",3,10000; bonus4
Bolt Sequence 4: Triggering from "Lightning Bolt"
bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT","WZ_EARTHSPIKE",3,10000; },{},{}
Now as it seems, the coding states that each bolt shall fire off sequentially, as it's predecessor bolt is cast. If it were to suggest all four bolts should cast at the same time, then wouldn't the code be written in such a way that all four bolts would hence trigger from auto-attacks?
| Quote: | bonus3 bAutoSpell,"MG_COLDBOLT",3,50; bonus4
bAutoSpellOnSkill,"MG_COLDBOLT","MG_FIREBOLT",3,1000; bonus4 |
As it is bolded (I need not show the other lines of code as the point is redundant right now) It would seem the bolts each are primed off each other. Doing some testing of my own with friends, almost any class stacking INT/Matk Mods and an elemental sword can nearly outdo a "Combat Professor" archtype in terms of magical melee DPS, with the effects being as they are now.
Like I said earlier, I admit that I could be wrong, but just going over the coding, this is what it seems like it should be, and that is bolts firing off in a sequential order and not all simultaneously. |
Just saying Adam did his research and I did this too. After elemental sword came out I read the script and was like. "OMG Sinx X_x" also its fair to say the script is corrected and works properly. Ty Adam for all your hard work.
Oh and in case ANYONE wants to know. NO WAY this is Ed posting this xDD!!
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| Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:11 pm |
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tehdarke
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
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adams too smart for this world lets kill him <3 i jk.  ! but really o.o sinx are in love with this new sword <3 but as many can see maya is so pro @.@!
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| Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:58 pm |
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whiteseaocean
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adam to smart o.o KILL THE FROG! thats where his brain is!
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| Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:05 pm |
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dragonbug
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
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yeah mix that with 2 on sinx and some kiels and man its murder. I love the fact that adam made such a ridiculous build though lol.
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| Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:23 pm |
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Glenfiddich
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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Looks to me that there isn't much reason to make a prof anymore 
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| Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:48 pm |
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Feronis
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
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| dragonbug wrote: | | yeah mix that with 2 on sinx and some kiels and man its murder. I love the fact that adam made such a ridiculous build though lol. |
I don't think Kiels would effect it as I don't think there is an ACD. If there is an ACD profs totally win as autospell has no ACD. But it may be hard to check as the elemental swords have a low~ish proc rate.
| Glenfiddich wrote: | | Looks to me that there isn't much reason to make a prof anymore |
Because auto spell professors are so common 
Also... professors can more damage than double elemental swords with a soul link.
Elemental swords do 45 bolts of damage on 2 independent 5% chances. Thus, you have a 10% chance per attack to do 45 bolts of damage and a .25% chance of doing 90 bolts (that is both attacks procced the sword, which I do know know if that can happen)
Professors have a 10.4% chance to do 20 bolts and a 2.6% chance to do 10 bolts from autospell with double casting. BUT! Professors get to specialize in 1 type of bolt. This is important when cards come into play. With 2 Siroma/Imp cards this effectively doubles the bolts (Sinx could use this as well, however, they would only get 6/12 extra bolts from Cold/Fire. You could use 6 pitman with 2 imp and get 25.5 extra bolts).
So you have 10.4% chance to do 40 bolts with a 2.6% chance to do 20.
Sinx's have 10% chance to do 45 bolts with a .25% chance of doing 90
Sinx's with Pitman/imp have a 10% chance to do 70.5 bolts with a .25% chance to do 141
Now we find the "expected bolts" for attack by simply multiplying the bolts to their associated probability and summing.
If both swords can proc from same attack:
Prof: 4.68
Sinx: 4.725
Sinx with Pitman/imp: 7.4
If they cannot:
Prof: 4.68
Sinx: 4.5
Sinx with Pitman/imp: 7.05
Now we add the MATK effect of the weapons:
Lich Bone Wand
MATK: +.23 +.06 from Centipede Larva x2
Swordx2
MATK +.10
If both swords can proc from same attack:
Prof: 4.68 --> 6.0372
Sinx: 4.725 -->5.525
Sinx with Pitman/imp: 7.4-->8.14
If they cannot:
Prof: 4.68 --> 6.0372
Sinx: 4.5 -->4.95
Sinx with Pitman/imp: 7.05-->7.755
THUS:
In order for a Sinx to do more damage than a prof with 2 elemental swords they must give up: Shield + Shield card, All weapon cards, megs in order to use acc with slots, acc cards. While the professor can retain their normal build.
And, calculated with Int = 285... (just random as I don't remember what my Int is), this disparity between sinx with pitman/imp cards and prof coresponds to an average of 3309~6203 damage a hit.
A professor does on average 2851~5344 more damge a hit than a sinx with just elemental swords alone.
(with assumption that double procs cannot occur)
This does not take into account elemental resistance nor hard magic defense. While elemental swords may be harder to build total resistance to instead of fire/water for professors, it is easy to build partial resistance as just about anyone with *any* elemental resist will resist some of the damage leading to a lower average observed vs true damage than professors while the professors have a larger variability.
Also, without a high wizard card, there is no ability to get past hard magic resist while a professor is free to use a staff of piercing.
TL;DR Profs can beat SinX at autospell game; SinX can beat prof at autospell game, depending on target and what the SinX is willing to sacrifice and their target.
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| Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:45 pm |
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whiteseaocean
Joined: 08 Sep 2010
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adam and feronis for the all knowing elmernt sword win o.o
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| Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:04 am |
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EdgarGrimfang
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
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Luzz Edit: Nonsense removed.
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Without using names, how in the hell did I direct the question to anyone? All I did was ask if Elemental sword was supposed to do what is does now. I took apart the code, gave my reasoning, and awaited a response. A response I might add, that Adam gave, he answered clearly, concisely, and without any petty insults.
Adam answered my question, and with that answer, the thread should have ended.
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"The World will know that free men stood against a tyrant. That few, stood against many, and before this battle was over, that even a God-King can bleed." -Leonidas to Xerxes |
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| Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:32 am |
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