 Topic: Removal / Cooldown on Items~? |
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| Implement... |
| Removal of healing items! |
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29% |
[ 10 ] |
| Cooldown of 5-10 seconds! |
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47% |
[ 16 ] |
| Spamming heal items is fun, so no! <3 |
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23% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 34 |
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PhantomBlood
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 201
Location: Canada
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| GRANDPA DREADNAUGHT wrote: | | NightShade wrote: | Just rummaged through half of the bullshit in this thread, and noticed a few things -
1. The ones who cling so tightly to keeping Pancakes the same, are the ones who Cannot*, and I use that term correctly, win without them.
2. People lack the knowledge of how much percentage can vary given the right equations. 1(One) may be a lonely number, but 1%(One Percent) sure as hell isn't lonely.
And 3. This is really pathetic, it's as plain as day that Pancakes need a nerf, but like I said with 1, they'll forever cling~
Also, LOL@Whoever said Pancakes need a Buff.
I agree with WoE without healing items, aside from Slim/Heal/Pot Pitcher/Etc. Don't complain about people with Kiels, Get Bragi. Less Compaining Because People Have Gear.
Really... Like, Really.
Now back to my Dead Space 2 grind. Tootles~ |
Well no offense, but stop making pancakes sound worst than the holocaust, its one god damn percent.
Hell why dont you be a good, fair, sport, and get on your LK. We'll have someone get on their LK seeing as I dont have a LK or Pally, and you will both wear no gears at all, and have all your stats dumped into vit 255, nothing else.
One will spam pancakes one will spam giggles and well see if one percent difference and the weight difference will bring the eternity of calamity and doom upon us as you say it will.
We will also need 2 Alchemists, same thing, no gears Just INT and 150 Dex, and Ill pay for the bottles if need be.
I will even pay for both stat resets for the 4 people, and it will only take about 5 minutes if not less.
Sound good? If not quitcherbitchin, shut up and sit down.
If the difference is notably vast, then yes they might need to be toned down.
If not, then you all need to shut it and stop whining that people are using something aside from giggles, which you all have a major market for selling if pancakes did get effected.
This wont take that much time, and it wont take any money form anyone else considering I will be affording it so you have no reason to say no.
To save costs, the max amount will be 30 of each item. (Pancakes/Giggles)\
And before you say "Ill forget my awesome 1337 build" write it down on a piece of paper, if you have a computer, I will assume you can write a short note on a little notepad.
We can have Luzz judge it too if you would be pleased, that way he can also make sure no-one on either side might be wearing any gears.
Hell and before anyone asks You can hold 300 giggles to every 120 pancakes.
5.4 mil + health for 300 giggles used, based on a 200k HP or greater LK
versus the
2.4 mil + from 120 pancakes based on a 200K HP or greater LK
The difference? Being cursed, thats it, oh and all the money you spend on making pancakes.
60 +10 VIT foods can be held on the equivalence of 120 pancakes
Which heals 50k per spam, which in turn heals 3 mil when all the spamming is said and done.
If the creator is wearing kiels, the pancake / giggle person wont be able to spam the item fast enough, and about 9/10 times a Asura will flat out kill anyone unless they Zerk first. The VIT food SORTA keeps up with AD damage, and even then only for 60 uses.
In reality, pancakes are inefficiant in terms of carrying capacity, zenny cost, and healing rate. The only "pro" is that of the STR buff (negligable) and no curse.
EDIT:
ALSO
inb4 the rebuttal to all this is "Lol noobs cant adapt, the decision was already made by Luzz, suck it up nub" For the easy way out.
Also waiting for the rebuttal on why a 80-94K class should be punished for something a 200K HP VERY CATERED TO class does, instead of fixing the class itself, so feel free to take a swing at it folks. |
GEEEEEZUS christ.... ok. Let me try to figure out where to begin here, oh yeah first off. Why in the world did we make this topic about creators OFFICIAL Healing skills. Why nerf them? ok, well while we're at it, a priest with 3 bacso's and 2 kiels is just hax. let's nerf that too while we're at it cause I've recieved heal spams from priests that healed me faster than pot pitches. Jifo was the one who did it. I was full health in 3 - 3.5 seconds and I had tao on. None of this is the point here, nerfing existing classes healing abilities removes a form of strategy as well as the usefulness of that class.
Cakes 1% higher isn't the overall issue, no repercussion. I'm going to use myself as an example, Tao gunka on. 400k HP. I use a cake. 40k health, I use a giggle, 36k. "OMG 4K ISN"T A LOT" Orly? spam them repeatedly as it is done. 4k over a series of spams adds up to a ton of extra health healed and there's where your 1% makes the difference. 10 cakes spammed, 400k heal. 10 giggles spammed, 360k + again, no down side to using it. I should be able to rest my case on that matter.
Thought I might add the fact that it doesn't matter how many of each you can carry, do you use 300 giggles in one wave of attacks? No. Do you use 120 pancakes in one wave of attacks? I should hope not, The amount of cakes you can carry is already more than enough to start and end a wave of attackers, then open your storage and pull out more.
| Quote: | 60 +10 VIT foods can be held on the equivalence of 120 pancakes
Which heals 50k per spam, which in turn heals 3 mil when all the spamming is said and done. |
I am in awe. to have 3m HP taken so lightly as if it shouldn't be a problem. BTW, you're 50k solid fact comment there is off. I use tao in woe sometimes, as stated above gives me 400k HP. Vit food +10 is 25% heal, sir that's 100k HP. Just because not everyone has tao, not everyone uses LK or pally etc. doesn't mean that the players using those classes with those cards aren't milking that recovery rate. Even if an LK or a pally don't have tao, both those classes exceed and sometimes far exceed 200K HP. don't forget the added HP boost you get from the +10 vit stat boost recieved from that food. the average heal would be closer to 55 - 60k with no tao on, higher for say, devotion pallies or sac pallies. As I stated above with cakes, the extra 5 - 10k more Heal makes a big difference after some quick spams.
Closing Statement: Luzz is infact completely prohibiting items that heal 20% or more. as well as making every heal item lower than 20% have a 3 second delay. I've said my entire piece here on why this should be done, I am responding to this thread no further. Luzz's decision has already been made, I suggest that we leave this thread alone now.
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Last edited by PhantomBlood on Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:10 pm |
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luzz
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 956
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I am locking this topic, because my simple instruction of 'respond to me, not to each other' was not followed.
Any change that is consider is always for the long term. This is why my proposal affects all percentage heal items. It isn't just about giggling boxes, or Lutie Lady's Pancakes. In a way, Glenn had it right - food items are potentially much more controversial with future updates. It is best to make a single rule now that affects everyone and all percentage healing items.
I am not singling out pancakes, nor giggling boxes. As part of my testing, I reviewed ALL the percentage healing items. The main issue is how much an item heals, not how much it weighs or how easy it is to get. Weight is a non-issue with @storage. Item availability is always changing. These factors are irrelevant to me and thus, not considered in my testing. As for the testing itself, I tested different items with different percentage heals. I tested certain skill damages and set a baseline for how much and how quickly heals are in order for them to be tolerable. My proposed change is a result of this testing. So far, I haven't read any good argument against what I have proposed - keeping in mind my desire for a long term solution.
My proposed change is simply broadening the No-Yggdrasil-Berries/Seeds rule. Any item that heals too much shouldn't be allowed in WoE. Any item that heals enough to turn WoE into a healing spamfest should be delayed. That's all there is to it.
This isn't about any single item, card, class, or skill.
For the few of you who are so adverse to testing changes - I ask you this: Why? And why be so irrational about it? Change is always inevitable. Change in-game, where it be official or modifications made to improve the server, will be inevitable. When change happens, we adapt to it. Again, these are not changes to single anyone out. These are changes that affect everyone. These are changes that more players agree with, at the very least - TESTING, than disagree with. To be against it to the point of irrationality is, in my opinion, selfish.
Now - for some clarifications:
1. Regarding items that heals over 20% and provide bonuses - chances are, the items will be completely restricted. Why? Because it's easy to maintain, easier to script, and affects everyone, so it evens out for everyone.
2. My personal opinion on this issue is - once the stash of pancakes (there are about 15K left on the server, the majority hogged by a few) is depleted (the amount used is less than the amount farmed), I don't think pancakes would be an issue. However, not doing anything now does not prevent other similar issues from arising in the future. This is the only reason I feel strongly for setting up a heal item rule now.
3. My proposal is just that - a proposal. It seems to me that most people agree to it. And most people agree to some delay. My proposal isn't set in stone - I am looking for some arguments against it. I did not find a compelling argument against it. This proposal, like any other proposed WoE change, will be trialed.
Since this topic is locked, players are free to find me in-game to discuss (but before you do, please do read and fully understand this post).
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| Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:41 pm |
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