[Xzerostu]

to start: this is alot of reading. Prepare yourself.Please quote the part you wish to debate and or argue, greatly appreciated. Comments and opinions Highly Welcomed.

notes will be written in purple, the actual post in black, topics written in blue, red is only used above.


This is based out of talk ive heard lately.

Glen made this suggestion long ago i think, but ive come to make a few points on it and maybe make a very detailed studied suggestion.

Glens original Suggestion Included buffing Ninjas, Minstrels, and the Taekwon group of extended classes.

Mine is a bit different but revolves the same, ill even hit up on those he talked about and others i can think of as well.

Minstrel:
To Be Honest - GTB seems like the only annoyance of that situation, other then someone just being out right better and the fact that they are clowns.
MY reasoning? Almost anyone can link, almost anyone can freeze and if you know your shit there are ways to stop almost any class in there track if it isnt an LK. Tarrot Cards do help. But Coma is where it is at and we all know it. But However i disagree with the fact that this is there only way to fight. Ide like to point out Clowns Have Bows People. Thana isnt as rare as it was back in the day. We have Charge Arrow and you can tarrot card with the bow on. To be perfectly honest, if i can kill Snipers stalkers and clowns bow to bow with my Stalker. Then a Clown can most certaintly do it, if not better then a stalker. Though im not making a guide on how IF I can do it with a stalker you can with a clown. If you dont wanna be DS build then there are options. Get a chello and musical strike to knock them back. Use charge arrow. Im sure it wouldnt be too hard to make some kind of a flee build and strip there armor, and if they fcp well god they must really hate you and just want you to die so bad that you need to change characters. But hey thats why there are other classes available. Clowns are support but they can fight, they can use a bow they can knock back and they can use rares too. There fine in my opinion and in fact ide go as far as to say DS and Tarrot cards combined might be pretty deadly. In fact tarrot DSDSDS tarot, tarrots delay isnt so bad if you use bragi link that its impossible to do that, and in fact it could be effective to almost anything that isnt a Sinx. If you wanna fight a sinx, well you probably have int for your bragi right? well use firewall scrolls. and take advantage of your bragi to ds really hard when there revealed for that second. Dont give me what if they hide shit either theres earth spike scrolls too. And you cant tell me that clowns arent potential ass woopers, because i have done it. As far as something like a champion goes?... Welllllllllllllll you got me there =P hope they freeze or that you get that lucky ass tarrot card. Other then that, a melee build inst impossible either. I realize alot of us dont like Cycore but ive seen him do some crazy shit with Melee on that class, and even though he isnt the biggest pvper, its probable that using that combined with other methods could be quite deadly.

Remember this is no theory ive done alot of this stuff AND IT DOES WORK, and it is some work, and though im not big on it much anymore, if you really want to be a bard class you have to go that extra mile, but the suggested change might change that at least a bit.

Suggested Change:
Therefore if i had to point out anything that really should change, it might be that Arrow Vulcan could use a boost in dmg (not neccesarly a HUGE boost) or a lower delay. It could add to a flare of people who arent too coordinated to do half the shit i have said. So i can throw it out there that Though these arent really needed changes. IF ANY these would definitely be the changes to do.

Personal Opinion:
The Change isnt needed but i Glen thought there was a problem and ive heard it before, but the change could be a good one even if unnecessary.

Lets Hit up On Ninja Next

Ninja:
TO Me. Even though they are fine, Glen proved a DAMN good point. Lack of AoE. However... Ninjas are really, powerful. A Bragi Ninja Especially could be deadly with throwing skills. And as far as avoiding being touched and hit. These little bastards are the kings and queens that rule that street. I personally feel a ninja is one of the most flawed things due to its repetitive single target skills, but again they ability to avoid dmg, if good. And ive seen ninjas that can kill with maya being there opposition. ELEMENTAL REDUCTION GOES BOTH WAYS.
For example:
You have lsoi, and the other person is using maya. *note they are not a professor using Maya* and they reflect or lsoi. The common solution, make yourself 100 percent water resistant, then not only will you hit but youl heal yourself too. If they are a magic character chances are you spam better then they do and if its a wiz well ide never use a ninja against them anyways, but if you hit them alot with your magic, theyl die, if you hit yourself alot youl heal. Easy solution, work for all three elemental moves, very easily.
Jumping back, the area moves such as Falling Ice Pillar and Lightning crasher. You got me on why falling ice pillar is reflected with maya. but Lightning crasher makes sense. If you have a bolt of lighting swing around what does it do to surrounding thins?, it conducts and strikes, Which makes alot of sense as to why its an area move and does single target. Because in a real life situation involving some unrealistic person swing a lighting bolt around there head, it would strike anything conductible within its area.
Falling ice pillar, well... Maybe its suppose to be realistic in that the ice shatters and the specific icicle reflects and hits? I really dont know why that and maya are no good together.
HOWEVER these moves have a purpose. They are AOEs but what do they bypass thats an anti aoe move? LAND PROTECTOR! And though that isnt of much use to people, to those ignorant to use magic rod and maya. it might kill someone using land protector to protect themselves, when those big team battles are happening.
Really though, ninjas have it made they can play bitch and hide easily while avoiding damage.

REMEMBER this has been done tested, and these things work with me personally have been one to perform them.

Suggested Change:
Reality is they only truly need a slight buff on what little area moves they have as Glen suggested, and THATS IF ANYTHING. because i see ninjas rape alot. And again we have other classes. that can be used.
THE BIG SUGGESTION on my part is that Ninjas be allowed to use Valk and sprint equipment. despite these points, that is a real pain in the ass and honestly i feel that it is an injustice to extended classes, and it might make people complain less. On a higher note i think its a good gift for ninjas without over powering them. Though the sprint set might be asking for a bit much due to reverse tatami.

Personal Opinion:
Ill say it again Ninjas are perfectly fine and i think its a great balance class for new people ( OP'd with huge flaws = normal ).
I hate them and until recently i couldnt kill them for shit. Its only after having a prof and a maya that i can 100 percent. and even then a ninja isnt useless so yeah. get some bragi or heal yo self with that maya. but the valk idea is good to me, i stick with adams suggestion to me that sprint set would OP reverse tatami.

Now Lets Move on to the Taekwon Class, and all 3 of them since taekwons in general were suggested by glen.

Taekwon Boy/girl
Taekwon Boys can rank =l. Sure theres only 10 of them. but that is 3x's hp and sp, all skills despite skill points, and spammable kicks. Running flying side kick, or even worse combined with breakfall. Taekwons might not be useful for woe. but in pvp it is the essence of rape. And in fact not to brag but hardly EVER! do i EVER get wooped when i am on that character unless i either A- Fight an Lk, or B- Fight a paladin =l. Advantages are around every corner. And in fact the hp boost is so high i can reach 172k with 74 vit. ITs like a constant tao gunka. This class very little flaws.
However they do have them and in my opinion they are listed as followed.

HIT- You have no weapon so you need alot of hit since the lack of phreeoni, i usually have to use 200 dex
Reflect- Owns you on taekwon if your kick, not usually with anything but the swordsman class but still. However a good bit of Flying side kick maneuvering and there still owning this flaw.
Emperium-cant spam it or fsk it
Rank List- only 10 spots. =l
Cant equip Valk Set-pretty self explanatory

Now theres probly more but really half of those are irrelavent, my taekwon serves its purpose and rapes HARD. All the time. It does. it really does. Against magic- ranged- alchemists- anything that usually isnt a swordsman class. So what might you ask is there suggestion?

Suggested Change:
Being allowed to equip the valk set. That is what the suggestion is. Not being able to do that can be a real pain in the ass. Having to have all your best card carded into non valk armors when we all know everyone uses it.(majority of the time anyways) You could throw sprint set in there for the taekwon boy/girl, but it really doesnt hurt or help it either way on that one.
The only other suggestion is making the rank list be at 20 or 15, ive seen plenty of people quit the idea of a TK boy/girl due to the rank list only being 10.
On another note allowing us to spam the emp i think is something that should be allowed. WHY? because it counts as a normal attack =l. Whirlwind kick is the only one that doesnt, and if we can be blade stopped in our kicks, then we should be able to spam the emp too. So on that note either allow emp kicking or stop bladestop on spam kicks(emp hitting seems more logical)

Personal Opinion:
The main change im worried in my opinion is the valk set. Thats all i really have of a personal opinion. They rape pretty well but the valk set seems a bit unfair in that sense.

Star Gladiator
Star Gladiator is pretty powerful due to its hatreds, but that hatred is a pretty big flaw too due to the fact you only get 3. But really Thats not very bad hatred is rape. a Glads huge flaw would be its Health there health utterly sucks hard. 90 vit only gives you 65 k, your gonna tell me that at almost 100 vit you get 40k less then a thief class? That seems harshly unfair despite hatreds, especially when union sucks your health up. However to those who also see this They can rape good too. Hatred and union is very powerful, After all if you only get 3 cards, hatred then use union, you get 3 cards worth of a dmg, plus hatred dmg, plus union ignoring of defense like incant, which really puts them on par. Unfortunately it requires you having to heal while you fight due to the low amounts of health they get. However they can coma easily with a book of the dead, they can do a mean crit build with a giant encyclopedia, and the above suggested method with FSK works great. They can also steal sp which can clinch a battle.

Suggested Change:
first off they definitely should get the valk set too. They lack alot of things so this would at least be fair. Now someone told me that it might be a good idea to let there warmth hurt people but to me, stealing sp is better considering there damage output is already high.
But there health is horrible, there best mode takes from it, reflect hurts bad, and they need hit and aspd as much as the next person which lowers there vit further. To be honest they just need a better Health boost. I mean the guys dont rank so.

Personal Opinion:
There a good class, but considering there flaws are quite large, a change should at least be made here.

Soul Linker:
Soul Linker isnt my most Knowledgeable class so hopefully Monochrome will put his input in on this subject.
But Soul Linkers have there purpose, they buff with links, and they rape magical characters. All you need is some geminis, and your set as a linker to fight magic, You can stab to death and all that. In honesty linkers can do ok dmg for a dagger wielder but they break weapons, they silence, they can be annoying and potentially kill things, but really they do lack, but theres not useless so they dont per say need anything.

Suggested Change:
If anything, throw them a valk set, and this one might be stretching it but allow them to use there ES magic, ive seen es magic used in pvp its not complete rape, but having soulinkers who can do something might be fun, and in all honesty, those skills can be reduced like any other.and probly GTB'd and maybe mayad, im unsure really. So i need some more input from fellow linkers.

Personal Opinion:
Linkers arent my most knowledgeable thing, so my opinion stands with my suggestion.

Suggested Change for all 3 taekwons:
Give us high jump back =l. I think the official change for that is pretty dumb. It just inhibits a class that cant do much unless your a taekwon and ranked. If nothing else at least give us this. Because i couldnt come up with a good reason as to why we cant in PVP (not woe i think the woe limitation on that is perfectly fine)

Now lets move on to one that Glen really didnt hit up on to my knowledge and that class is Gunslinger.

Gunslinger:
Slingers have ALOT of Flaws and Good Points.
LEts go with Flaws. Slingers have alot of delay A lot of delay on everything nearly. There pretty under powered. The disarm skill now shows animation no matter what which was stupid =l. Even with kiels ive noticed that delay due to there animation messes them up alot. These are quite the problems on top of no valk or sprint set
Now there good points are that they arent useless, They can spam tracking if you do the build good, Thats a powerful frigging skill. Especially they serve there purpose as a quick killer for alchemists with anti AD build. and If you bragi thats definitly a plus. But on a real note being an active gunslinger i feel very underpowered compared. Trackings big flaw vs other classes is that its range blows.

Suggested Change:
Give them valk and sprint set. It really would be a big help considering they dont have much as it is. Thats the real suggestion there. Maybe boost rapid fires and tripple action's dmg a bit, but thats more of just an idea then a suggestion.

Personal Opinion:
My Gunslinger packs a punch but having valk and sprint would save alot of time and help, and its good enough help that it doesnt inhibit anyone. or really even make them THAT Much better but i think helps anyways. Especially when slinger health isnt the most decent either. (better then a glad though)

Only One More that i think should be considered

Super Novice Suggestion:
I think we should boost there health so that there up there with the big league, and there Job level should be 149 not 120, Real Super Novices officiallt have job 99, while trans is 70, thats 29 more job levels. 120 plus 29, 149. I think that would be a nice idea considering its just more accurate to official servers, and they have so many skills that they should be able to do that =P which was the reason they went to 99 on official servers, so they should move up the same amount as trans did when they were bumped to 120.

Super Novices were a neat class they should get something. Ive mentioned to luzz the idea about there job level, and he thought it was worth thinking about at least due to the fact that it made sense. though if i remember correct he thought more like just 140 would be fine.

There not much else that really needs a boost in my opinion. Truthfully ive gotton alot of crap about certain classes so this is my take on it =)
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Agnilam-BoC Stalker

NBH for life

Break it down with scorpion

[Glenfiddich]

Thanks for pointing out early that I brought it up once before.

Being we are a mid rate server, support classes lose their value. For the extremely insane hp boosts compared to low rates, heals and potions are almost pointless. I only think these classes need a slight boost in damage really.

Ninjas need an aoe. Seriously you can't win if the enemy has a Maya.

The reason I didn't bring up slinger is because they are fine. I have seen your slinger before :S it hurts.
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Characters-

Glenfiddich; 255- Professor
Jager Bomb; 255- Creator
Rammstein; 255- Creator

[Kiku_Ichiomonjii]

DMG wise they are ok, but **** man i have 95% after cast reduction and its pointless


the issue is with the animation, takes wayy to long to move his dgm little gunnies xD

gets me kill so much


and i agree with the ninja thing,just they also have melee builds and shuriken.which own sometimes

[Xzerostu]

[dragonbug]

i thought i read some where that when some revisions happend, the classes like ninja and taekwondo were getting the ability to equip valk stuff and stuff that requires rebirth. hmm.
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cadian!~

[Stiffler]

Nothing can really be done about Arrow Vulcan because of the animation. So thus I agree they should have the damage increased by a good percentage.

But Trent, comparing a bow using Clown to a Stalker is not really good. Stalkers can hide and cloak and backslide away, whilst clowns can only hope to use knock back. But since people use Bryn, Strong Shield and others it makes life very difficult for them.

I would say Pang Voice would be an option but with status immunities thats only a false hope that works with a few idiots.
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Ryan's Back >=3
/trollolololol
Knives-255 Champion
Legato-255 Sinx
And all the others. =]

[Xzerostu]

The comparison of a bow stalker is there are time where i dont backslide and can do it. There is ways, and the big point there was to say that there really not the most important thing to change since there not the worst off, they have options. Sure you might not be able to take an lk or a champion but hey i usually have to get an alchy to do it.
_________________
Agnilam-BoC Stalker

NBH for life

Break it down with scorpion

[Xzerostu]

bump~
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Agnilam-BoC Stalker

NBH for life

Break it down with scorpion