 Topic: Improving Economy, Suggestions |
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JDUB
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 171
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 Post subject: Improving Economy, Suggestions |
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From the market place discussion on inflated item prices:
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...The traditional way to control inflation is to have the banks increase the interest on the zeny, so the profit for the best alternative investment will be increased. Since RO does not have investment structure, there is no place for the players to spend money. The total quantity of money will inevitably increase faster than the population grow and the number of trabe-able items.
Defining M, as quantity of money in the system,
V as the velocity of money or the frequency of money spent at a certain period of time,
P as the general price level,
and Q as the index of the real value of final expenditures or the actual worth of an item,
the equation
M * V = P * Q is valid according to empirical fit to literature data.
In the world of RO, there is a CONSTANT frequency of money spending, since the population of Reign has stopped to grow. The V value doesn't change. Assume the price index Q will not change. BUT, the value of M never stops to increase because there are no strategy to control the rate of increase of total amount of money, dM/dt. No working banking system, no working investment system. Without a banking system and with dM/dt >> V, older players will inevitably accummulate zeny steady as they progress through the game. The insane amount of money accummulated by older players naturally drive up the price of high end items.
Solution? make older players stop playing the game, divide their total zeny count for 10, or implement a stock system(not sure how stock market works).... |
My suggestions are obviously jokes, and normal 16 years olds really don't care about simple math, but in all seriousness, prices needs to be brought down. The only reason why prices are so high, and GC, rather than zeny, is used to trade high end MVP cards, is because there are no effective way for zeny to disappear.
Here are some criteria for making your suggestions:
1. The method has to make zeny disappear
2. The method has to give player benefits in return
3. The method try to minimize the impact that the benefit on the balance of the game.
Here is an example.
Method: Allowing zeny to level conversion
Details: allowing players to pay zeny to level up, with exponential amount needed as the level approaches 255.
Benefit: Zeny disappears from the system, prices drop
Impact: Everyone levels too fast.
Suggestions from players
By marine
Method: raise casino bids.
Details: Allow pple with extra time and zeny go casino and blow it away. (Design for more people to lose than to win)
Benefit: u can win more zeny or blow it alll.
Impact: minors can get gambling adicted.
Method: Lowering donations girl prize for gc to 50 m to something less.
Pro : pple will do bb easier and get more rares prices should drop ? new ppl could afford their donations gears easier.
Con : idk how this would and posibly could hit the economic big disvalue on the cards and some pple would just stop donating cus make the zeny would be just easier to get bb and donations equips .
By XDoggStrafe
Method: Remove Zeny from killing monsters.
Details: Stops players from gaining a set amount of zeny from killing mvp's and random monsters.
Benefit: Zeny already in the system would stay, but new zeny disappears from the system, prices would eventually drop to a decent range.
Impact: New players will have a harder time making zeny to buy items in the mall and such.
Method: Allowing zeny to safe refine.
Details: An npc that would safely refine an item +1 for an amount of zeny, each level past the actual safe limit of the item would increase the price significantly. Garment is only safe up to +7, and restrict certain special items with bonuses on refining, ie lich's boner wand.
Benefit: Zeny disappears from the system, +10 armor and such apparently doesn't add too much of a difference.
Impact: Eventually this will become outdated as everyone will have all +10 gear and the cycle will start again. Pally with too much def/reflects.
Method: Allow Zeny to spawn 1 random MVP (with a low chance of a normal monster)
Details: allowing players to pay zeny to summon one completely random mvp (or if they have the unfortunate luck of getting a normal monster) from the bloody branch/dead branch list or another list altogether. A standard fee of 5 million would be a good base starting point.
Benefit: Zeny disappears from the system, and mvp cards could become more common, thus their prices drop
Impact: Everyone may end up with 20 + phreeoni cards or other common mvps and monsters. Also it will cause imbalances the pvp environment.
By Bubbaknoxz
Method: Increasing MVP Card drop rate, Decrease price of GCs
Detail: By increasing MVP card drop rate, the price of mvp cards will drop. By decreasing the price of GCs, all players can afford GCs to buy mvp cards.
Benefit: Lowers prices for mvp cards. Makes GC and MVP cards affordable.
Impact: Unbalanced PVP room. Deviates for MidRate server model.
FYI, I am hex, and no longer play rain/reign RO. Hai Ruzz!
Last edited by JDUB on Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:51 pm |
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Zebruh
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 1537
Location: Massachusetts
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Everyone levels up too fast as it is with the boxes, so the impact isn't even that bad.
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:04 pm |
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marine
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 1389
Location: here
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| Post subject: Re: Improving Economy, Suggestions |
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| JDUB wrote: | From the market place discussion on inflated item prices:
| Quote: |
...The traditional way to control inflation is to have the banks increase the interest on the zeny, so the profit for the best alternative investment will be increased. Since RO does not have investment structure, there is no place for the players to spend money. The total quantity of money will inevitably increase faster than the population grow and the number of trabe-able items.
Defining M, as quantity of money in the system,
V as the velocity of money or the frequency of money spent at a certain period of time,
P as the general price level,
and Q as the index of the real value of final expenditures or the actual worth of an item,
the equation
M * V = P * Q is valid according to empirical fit to literature data.
In the world of RO, there is a CONSTANT frequency of money spending, since the population of Reign has stopped to grow. The V value doesn't change. Assume the price index Q will not change. BUT, the value of M never stops to increase because there are no strategy to control the rate of increase of total amount of money, dM/dt. No working banking system, no working investment system. Without a banking system and with dM/dt >> V, older players will inevitably accummulate zeny steady as they progress through the game. The insane amount of money accummulated by older players naturally drive up the price of high end items.
Solution? make older players stop playing the game, divide their total zeny count for 10, or implement a stock system(not sure how stock market works).... |
My suggestions are obviously jokes, and normal 16 years olds really don't care about simple math, but in all seriousness, prices needs to be brought down. The only reason why prices are so high, and GC, rather than zeny, is used to trade high end MVP cards, is because there are no effective way for zeny to disappear.
Here are some criteria for making your suggestions:
1. The method has to make zeny disappear
2. The method has to give player benefits in return
3. The method try to minimize the impact that the benefit on the balance of the game.
Here is an example.
Method: Allowing zeny to level conversion
Details: allowing players to pay zeny to level up, with exponential amount needed as the level approaches 255.
Benefit: Zeny disappears from the system, prices drop
Impact: Everyone levels too fast.
FYI, I am hex, and no longer play rain/reign RO. Hai Ruzz! |
skank.
Well i put some help too , raise casino bids .
Details: Allow pple with extra time and zeny go casino and blow it away .
Benefit: u can win more zeny or blow it alll.
Impact: minors can get gambling adicted .
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:27 am |
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Glenfiddich
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1735
Location: Australia, Brisbane
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| Zebruh wrote: | | Everyone levels up too fast as it is with the boxes, so the impact isn't even that bad. |
Took the words out of my mouth.
Boxes fail.
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:46 am |
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XDoggStrafe
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Snowy Canada
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Well, I have one thing to say about your opening post Hex, it's just that Inflation is created when banks create money from nothing, lowering the value of the money floating around already. That aside, I think you nailed the inflation thing on the head with that post...anyways, here's my suggestion for lowering the inflation of prices.
Method: Remove Zeny from killing monsters.
Details: Stops players from gaining a set amount of zeny from killing mvp's and random monsters.
Benefit: Zeny already in the system would stay, but new zeny disappears from the system, prices would eventually drop to a decent range.
Impact: New players will have a harder time making zeny to buy items in the mall and such.
Method: Allow Zeny to spawn 1 random MVP (with a low chance of a normal monster)
Details: allowing players to pay zeny to summon one completely random mvp (or if they have the unfortunate luck of getting a normal monster) from the bloody branch/dead branch list or another list altogether. A standard fee of 5 million would be a good base starting point.
Benefit: Zeny disappears from the system, and mvp cards could become more common, thus their prices drop
Impact: Everyone may end up with 20 + phreeoni cards or other common mvps and monsters.
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:53 am |
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Glenfiddich
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1735
Location: Australia, Brisbane
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Good post dogg. And also, no interest from bank would be good 
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:21 am |
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Zebruh
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 1537
Location: Massachusetts
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| Glenfiddich wrote: | | Good post dogg. And also, no interest from bank would be good :-) |
Second.
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:06 am |
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Bubbaknoxz
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 450
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| XDoggStrafe wrote: |
Method: Allow Zeny to spawn 1 random MVP (with a low chance of a normal monster)
Details: allowing players to pay zeny to summon one completely random mvp (or if they have the unfortunate luck of getting a normal monster) from the bloody branch/dead branch list or another list altogether. A standard fee of 5 million would be a good base starting point.
Benefit: Zeny disappears from the system, and mvp cards could become more common, thus their prices drop
Impact: Everyone may end up with 20 + phreeoni cards or other common mvps and monsters. |
I suggested the idea of paying for MVP's and ppl said it was a bad idea, how the tides are slowly going in favor of it (make up your mind ppl)..........
The only true way to improve the economy is to introduce more rare cards/mvps, Thats the only way prices will drop into the range of zeny. Other than that and some of the other suggestions, their really is no way zeny can become the most used form of currency with gc readily available from the donation npc. Once newer players come in the cycle will start all over again.
Another way you can look at the inflation is in form of Essences. I've seen ppl sell essences for basically a gc a piece, and you need 10+ essences for a item. When in reality you can by the item in the npc for 10gcs. Thats inflation but yet a lot of people do it from what I've seen.
SOS has seen this type of market first hand in another server, however the handle on credits and pricing was to a better degree than it is on here. This was due to simple things, i.e seasonal discounts on credits, buy 200gc's get 50gc's free, 100gc's get 25 free. A MVP room that spawn a monster of your choice for zeny(or a free quest pass) with a wait time in between spawns. Prices of cards were no where near the price they are on here. Maya P was like 5gc's not 30gc's, Thana was around 40gc's not the 170 here, Kiel was like 65gc's (still hunted via quest not in mvp room) not the 150 here. Keep in mind that server had a gold room as well for zeny, it's not how much you have but if you can't transfer it to gc's(except during seasonal npc periods which last for a week), gc prices will be their own denomination.
No matter how you look at it once buying gc's were put into the npc the market hit a downward spiral, because it made gc's also readily available to everyone. Take away converting zeny into gc's from the donation npc and you see the market slowly correct itself.
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:44 am |
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Glenfiddich
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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Location: Australia, Brisbane
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Oh i missed that part of doggs suggestion. Dont like the idea of mvp spawning. Unless they are crap mvps.
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:46 am |
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marine
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 1389
Location: here
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| Glenfiddich wrote: | | Oh i missed that part of doggs suggestion. Dont like the idea of mvp spawning. Unless they are crap mvps. |
the mvp on mvp room are crap ones lol xD
and i dont like this .
Method: Remove Zeny from killing monsters.
Details: Stops players from gaining a set amount of zeny from killing mvp's and random monsters.
Benefit: Zeny already in the system would stay, but new zeny disappears from the system, prices would eventually drop to a decent range.
Impact: New players will have a harder time making zeny to buy items in the mall and such.
basicly u makin zeny a lot harder to make , i would even charge more for the items on mall from edp to 200k i would start chargin it 450k ea. .
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:55 am |
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Bubbaknoxz
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 450
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| Glenfiddich wrote: | | Oh i missed that part of doggs suggestion. Dont like the idea of mvp spawning. Unless they are crap mvps. |
Define crappy mvps? Tgens arent crappy yet spawn in the mvp room currently none stop. Same with phree, tanee, lod, mistress, etc... Their should be a limit to the spawn, i.e 1 mvp per 15mins. This way they dont get over farmed, Trust me what I suggested above will fix the problem concerning the RO economy. Like what you and I talked about the last time a MVP room discussion came about, place a vote for the idea in of itself. Then we collectively as a server vote the spawn prices, time between spawns( a must to keep over farming to a low) and MVPs that will spawn in the MVP room. To bypass the wait time you can hunt MVP Vouchers, which negate the wait time, but if you have the MVP Pass(allows free summons but is a bish to do and also keeps the economy from sky rocketing again) quest done you still have to pay the set price for the MVP you wish to spawn even with the pass.
You may say that will cut into the lvling practice of some people, well easy fix offer boxes that increase rates, like 300% books, that come in a box of 5 for 5 gc's. With those implemented the max lvl boxes wont be needed. With the MVP room implemented you can also remove the BB's from the donation npc as well.
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:22 am |
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XDoggStrafe
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Snowy Canada
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| Bubbaknoxz wrote: |
I suggested the idea of paying for MVP's and ppl said it was a bad idea, how the tides are slowly going in favor of it (make up your mind ppl)..........
The only true way to improve the economy is to introduce more rare cards/mvps, Thats the only way prices will drop into the range of zeny. Other than that and some of the other suggestions, their really is no way zeny can become the most used form of currency with gc readily available from the donation npc. Once newer players come in the cycle will start all over again.
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Actually bubba if you went back to that idea, and checked, I actually liked the idea of paying for an MVP as long as there was a decent return of zeny on it so that players don't end up bankrupt with nothing to show for it while the prices still sky rocket upwards. As far as the second bit there, if I read it right, I agree with that, more rare cards floating around would help out the economy as long as there's a way to cap out the inflation that's created from getting zeny for basically doing nothing but farming.
@marine
Also I forgot to mention this, but stopping new zeny being made from nothing will stop the inflation, it's basic economics, trust me, I've broken the economy on a few servers now. The worst being a now dead server that couldn't recover from me and 4 friends farming items, selling them for dirt prices and then using the profits to buy out the stock of everyone else, creating an infinite downward spiral that ended with a server roll back of about 3 months. Zeny gained from basically nothing eventually breaks the server's economy down so that the only way to turn a profit is to either flood a market with a specific rare item or raise your prices so high that most people can't afford it. Both are sad prospects for Reign if you ask me.
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:35 am |
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Bubbaknoxz
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 450
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| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | Bubbaknoxz wrote: |
I suggested the idea of paying for MVP's and ppl said it was a bad idea, how the tides are slowly going in favor of it (make up your mind ppl)..........
The only true way to improve the economy is to introduce more rare cards/mvps, Thats the only way prices will drop into the range of zeny. Other than that and some of the other suggestions, their really is no way zeny can become the most used form of currency with gc readily available from the donation npc. Once newer players come in the cycle will start all over again.
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Actually bubba if you went back to that idea, and checked, I actually liked the idea of paying for an MVP as long as there was a decent return of zeny on it so that players don't end up bankrupt with nothing to show for it while the prices still sky rocket upwards. As far as the second bit there, if I read it right, I agree with that, more rare cards floating around would help out the economy as long as there's a way to cap out the inflation that's created from getting zeny for basically doing nothing but farming. |
Well thats where the quest for a mvp pass, which allows free summons, would be involved. The only time where you dont get free summons is when you use a mvp voucher to summon or you dont have a MVP pass. Since the pass will require a crap load of items/ 100m zeny and some hide and seek with invisible npcs. Once you get a pass you wont get charged so you'll still make some form of money back. Only time you wont is when you want to summon lets say a Tao(cheap loot) none stop with about 50 mvp vouchers (the only way to bypass the 15-20min wait). The cost to summon Tao would be 1-3m, your loot comes to about 10k i think or just 100z, not up to date with his drop prices.
This will give everyone equal access to mvps, I say for 1 week let all the mvps be in the MVP room with a 30min wait time. Just to flood the market with more cards, and while the week process is going on we will vote off MVP's, each person will have the option to chose 15 mvps out of the complete total mvps they want out. Then from there we'll have the finished MVP room with pricing.
Of course implementing a gold style room like the one i suggested in some old topic, not the usual one with chests. Will also help ppl get zeny, but they'll need a gold room pass to get in which cost 50k per pass from a npc, and Ahura and Angra aren't allowed in the room, with 2 Drakes( no drops) roaming around while you kill Crystals.
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:52 am |
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dragonbug
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
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| Glenfiddich wrote: | | Good post dogg. And also, no interest from bank would be good |
thats bs. even at 250 mil in the bank the most you get is 1 mill a day. thats not a lot. or at least to me 
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:35 am |
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dragonbug
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
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people the zenny on the monsters isnt a deal here. thats in game money. the inflation is caused by super greedy players who think a cards worth is worth REAL usd or outrageous amounts of money. i sold my thanatos for 4.4billion and that wasn't even my price. the guy that bought it offered that to me. just cause the card is rare and hard to get doesnt mean you have to be a douche about things.
especially seeing things like. need Kiel card, and what you want in return is like 4 glooms +gcs or thana and whatever card. the chances of someone having the requirements is ridiculous. This game is supposed to be FUN to play so thats why i sell my cards for cheap. I sell a phreeoni for like 10mil because its not worth 30-40 mil like most sell theirs for. And most the people that Want and NEED these cards are either new players or ones that dont activly hunt like me so they dont have 30 mil to spare. Problem is most people selling their "rare" cards dont think outside their box and realize other players arent like them. hell ive even been guilty of this.
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| Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:40 am |
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