[Toft]

[NightShade]

[marine]

BESIDES Fked up economy is not only seen here, on any ro p server the economy changes and always is fked up =/ that's wht i think ...
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[Reiji]

[GRANDPA DREADNAUGHT]

Gonna back Reiji up here on this one, Have a look at this link.

http://wow.incgamers.com/blog/comments/gold-farmers-arrested
(This was under China's law system, not the United States, but that might change soon enough anyways keep on reading)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_farming

((
US
A US Congressional committee investigated taxation of virtual assets and incomes in 2006,[25][26] and the IRS has, in its National Taxpayer Advocate's 2008 Annual Report to Congress, expressed concern that virtual worlds are a growing source of tax noncompliance.[27]
(Granted I know wikipedia is not a 100% reliable source of information, but the sources are cited and referenced to properly)

#25 == http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2006/10/15/us-congress-launchs-probe-into-virtual-economies/

#26 == http://news.cnet.com/IRS-taxation-of-online-game-virtual-assets-inevitable/2100-1043_3-6140298.html?tag=item
#27 ==
http://www.insidesocialgames.com/2009/01/20/irs-getting-closer-to-a-virtual-goods-tax/
))

IRS Form 1099, google and study it.

Luzz's Words: (Thankyou very much Shadow for pointing me in the correct direction and showing me my error)
http://www.reignonline.net/viewtopic.php?t=18

[ShadowNguyen91]

Luzz sorta has touched the topic, if you read the second announcement in the marketplace subforum you'd read this

[GRANDPA DREADNAUGHT]

[Toft]

I got an idea..

If someone tries to sell anything for Gold Coins / real money, give them a temp. ban, problem solved.

[GRANDPA DREADNAUGHT]

Bit harsher then the punishment stands now, (threads only being locked/deleted) but that could fix things too.

I am just inputing in my post from a legal standpoint so IF BY ANY CHANCE someone gets audited by the IRS, or should anyone bother to report these shady kinds of things to the IRS, Luzz would have his bases covered.
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[sourlime]

Creating source to get more zeny cannot help the economy itself, but to remove or reduce zeny or gold coin will start a serious problem. I seriously don't need to state why it will cause a problem instantly.

However, people might be wondering how it will help in the long run:

Removing Gold Coin:
Let's be honest, the source to pay for hosting the server might be from Gold Coin. In another thread, Reiji stated that this is a free to play server. Well, once gold coin is remove, will people still continue to donate to the server just to keep it running? We can also take away gold coin, and just use donation credit instead. This is certainly not a good idea, but it's still an idea. I'm against taking away Gold Coin due the fact that it now one of the main currency in Reign.

Reducing Zeny:
Do you guys seriously thing that the excessive Zeny is the source of this problem? People spend time farming Zeny in the MVP room. We started out the server the same way, 100k each. Our zeny is dependent of our luck and patience. Yes, we can cheat by selling gold coin, but it still depends on someone else luck/patience. How can we solve the excessive Zeny,tax vendor for each items they sell. Increase the price on certain items at the mall like the ingredient for pancake since there is an excessive use of it during WoE. Since those items barely cost anything increasing it by a few 100 zeny would not cause an dramatic change.
Also, it is not the excessive Zeny that disturb the economy, but it the consumer demands that tip the balance.

I don't see why would these two reason were brought up in this discussion of a bad economy. Angra and Ahura lead to the massive zeny farming, isn't this one of the source to why there is an enormous supply of Zeny. Why not get rid of the source instead? The removal of gold coins, if consumer demands for these = 0, then it wouldn't be a problem right. It is true that you can receive gold coin by buying it from the donation girl for 50m each. Why buy it from people that sell them instead? Obvious answer no need to state that. Instead of attacking the aftermath, attack the source of the problems. It is useless to reduce the amount of zeny everybody have now, since they still have an angra and ahura to farm it again. However, what is the guarantee they will endure wasting their time to achieve what they already did? Removing gold coin when it demands is so high.... Not to mention the fraud that can result from removing it. People will pay other to donate for their account. Which mean there is account sharing. What is the solution to fraud and scamming? Ban, but what about the item? We know that Luzz value his time, now we're going find more way to snatch his leftover time?
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[GRANDPA DREADNAUGHT]

So just apply WoE map rules to MVP Arena?

That works out fine and dandy, but how long until we see an actual change in the market, from this change with the items?

The question should also be asked:


Do we want a immediate solution, or over time solution?

((Also what direction is this thread even going? Server Side Economics, people selling crap for IRL money, or all the above? Separate topics can be made for both and can be delved into a lot deeper.))
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[luzz]

Gold Coins were implemented for a few reasons, primarily:

1. In the past, players have asked staff members to transfer their unused credits to other players accounts, as a surprise gift for their friends. This led to a couple of issues (the most obvious one being - we do not want to touch any player's credits ). Thus, gold coins made it possible for people to gift credit to others in a safe manner.

2. In the past, players were sharing account information to donate for each other. This lead to all sort of issues. Gold coins helped a bit for this issue, and also provided us a easy manner of tracking where unused credit is going, instead of trying to determine whether or not players were sharing accounts.


I have seen players give (not sell) gold coins to their friends as a gift, and the happiness that results. This alone, to me, is reason to keep them on the server.

Gold coins do not prevent players from buying/selling for real life money. As a matter of fact, from what I see, it appears as if people who engage in these transactions use money transfer services like Western Union and Paypal.

We are true believers that players are entitled to whatever luck brings them in-game.

My personal opinion regarding real world money sales of in-game goods - I do not understand it, nor do I agree with it. However, I know that it is something that we cannot stop. Players can communicate outside of our forums or in-game to arrange transactions. There is no way we can determine if an item is sold for money, given away to a friend, or loaned out to an acquaintance.

Because this is impossible for us to determine, we simply will not spend the time to make these determinations. Players do have their right to their own items in-game. And yes, unfortunately, they do have some perceived real-life value.


Now, my attorney (who is the smartest guy I know), have advised me on the issues with these transactions. We have determined that it is actually very important that Reign Online does not allow any type of advertisement for real money sales of in-game items/accounts. To protect ourselves legally, we must remove any such advertisements.

Now that I think about it, we have been pretty lenient about this. But this is not a small matter, and we really should be more thorough about it.


So - in short:
1. Please do not advertise any real money sales of anything.
2. We will delete your post(s).
3. We will revoke your posting rights if you do this too often.
4. We will boot you in-game if we see you advertising.
5. We will ban you if you keep doing it.
6. We need to protect ourselves from potentially risky actions of players.
7. We will enforce these rules to the best of our ability and time permitting, and ask that players understand and respect why we must do so.


I hope this clarifies everything.
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[marine]

better itemz for excesive amounts of zeny i.e one bublegum xxxm of zeny (ik this is a gm reward on events but i would spend my z on it).. and things of the like imo the gold coin zeny exchanger is good but how make each time in a while a off sale so more pple is encouraged to pay zenies for gcs.
I like cards being tradable for in game currency.
toitles too (=
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[Glenfiddich]

Reset zeny. I'd lol.
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Characters-

Glenfiddich; 255- Professor
Jager Bomb; 255- Creator
Rammstein; 255- Creator

[NightShade]

Not to bring it up again... But that Mvp Room really would eat up the servers Zeny and provide those Super-Duper rares to the playing fields.. For In-Game Values! Instead of Real Life =.=...

'Epic Car Salesmen Voice End'
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