 Topic: Lord of Death? |
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Kiku-Ichiomonjii
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
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 Post subject: Lord of Death? |
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Ive tryed this myself, and checked online and cant get a strait answer.
lod on a bow, does it work?
its weird cause, as i tested with a dagger, it worked great. all status in a few hits, but then a bow, i got none. randomly at some point in my testing the lod worked on my bow for like 3 seconds, and never worked again. so idk if its how close/far i am to the target or what
anyone have any imput on this? |
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| Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:21 pm |
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GlitchyVirus
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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| Lord of Death Script wrote: | | { bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Stun,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Curse,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Silence,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Poison,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Bleeding,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus2 bWeaponComaRace,RC_NonBoss,1; },{},{} |
According to this, coma DOES work with range. Obviously it's not gonna be very likely to occur.
Other than that, I'm ASSUMING that the only reason it worked before "for like 3 seconds" was becuase the target was in "short" (as determined by the game) range. Or perhaps there is a bug that caused it to work for some reason, idk.
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| Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:03 pm |
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Mutt
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LoD used to work perfectly on bows years ago, I don't know why it changed
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| Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:01 pm |
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Kiku-Ichiomonjii
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
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there has to be a 100% reason why its like that, it works sometimes isnt good enough for me lol
WHY does it only work sometimes? and dont say "Its 5%!" |
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| Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:00 pm |
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jogradz1225
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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well for one the activation chance is too low. it can be the 5%, say in 100 shots you fired, 5 of them is the chance it will activate, of course this is to say you need 100 shots to kill someone. and that is only chance, it will be further reduced by the Vit of the opponent which will make them harder to be inflicted with a status effect or coma, then there's the cards like Gemini and armors that reduce chances of getting these status effects, so for added testing on your LOD, try it on enemies with less VIT to see if any factors change. after you test it and receive the same result, i'll do tests myself.
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:06 am |
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GlitchyVirus
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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| jogradz1225 wrote: | | well for one the activation chance is too low. it can be the 5%, say in 100 shots you fired, 5 of them is the chance it will activate, of course this is to say you need 100 shots to kill someone. and that is only chance, it will be further reduced by the Vit of the opponent which will make them harder to be inflicted with a status effect or coma, then there's the cards like Gemini and armors that reduce chances of getting these status effects, so for added testing on your LOD, try it on enemies with less VIT to see if any factors change. after you test it and receive the same result, i'll do tests myself. |
Most smart people do not have high vit, expect for necessity. If they do, they get Thana/AD raped. If they don't, they get status-raped, except with cards.
Other than that, your calculations are slightly off. There are 5 statuses (not including coma) that can be cast, each at a 5% chance. With technicallities involved, there is actually a 25% chance of having any one status inflicted, which means 1 out of every 4 attack will inflict or ATTEMPT to inflict "a" status.
Also, on a server with 196 max aspd, 100 attacks is not difficult. I'm not even going to attempt to count how many, but I'd say like 100 would be done in about 3 seconds? 5? MAYBE 7? So in about (let's say) 7 seconds you would have attempted to inflict 25 statuses. Doesn't seem so bad now, does it?
It used to work on bows, as Aloe said, but it seems the script was changed. I have found (some time ago) that status infliction WAS consistent with short-range bow attacks, though I believe this was before certain changes were involved (after the "perfectly fine" change, but before this apparent "random/unexplained infliction" change).
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:10 am |
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Kiku-Ichiomonjii
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| Well, needless to say..owned? |
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:32 am |
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jogradz1225
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| GlitchyVirus wrote: | | jogradz1225 wrote: | | well for one the activation chance is too low. it can be the 5%, say in 100 shots you fired, 5 of them is the chance it will activate, of course this is to say you need 100 shots to kill someone. and that is only chance, it will be further reduced by the Vit of the opponent which will make them harder to be inflicted with a status effect or coma, then there's the cards like Gemini and armors that reduce chances of getting these status effects, so for added testing on your LOD, try it on enemies with less VIT to see if any factors change. after you test it and receive the same result, i'll do tests myself. |
Other than that, your calculations are slightly off. There are 5 statuses (not including coma) that can be cast, each at a 5% chance. With technicallities involved, there is actually a 25% chance of having any one status inflicted, which means 1 out of every 4 attack will inflict or ATTEMPT to inflict "a" status. |
my calculation is not off, you get a 5% chance to inflict them EACH not altogether, otherwise the script would say so otherwise. combining them to 25% as per illness would mean that in every 4 attacks 1 of them activates, this is not so. the illness you inflict will be random in any of each listed.
now, pertaining to the chance, every attack you do, may count as 1/100, the chance of activation as we have 196 atk speed increases dramatically but the rule is still the same, if its 25% chance it must say that for each ailment the HTML text would say "bAddEff,Eff_(illness)2500,ATF_SHORT".
I have used LoD in many and this server, it has worked in melee as it should, the computation you may have is for each status effect as this 1 illness has 5% activation, having 5 illnesses gives it 25% chance, is not likely. ok let me reduce the numbers 5/100 chance is 1 out of 20 hits. having 5 illnesses at your card gives 5/20 or 1/4 but each illness has its own activation which is still 1/20 x 5. having luck in real life could also give it effect, like as I said, in every attack 1/20 activates it, so every hit you make may count as 1/20 oe 2/20 and so on, you can have all illnesses activate in all those 20 hits you made, making 20/20 chances of illnesses chance.
conclusion:
1/20 x 5 = 5/20 or 1/4 chance is wrong
but
1/20 x 1 for each 5 illnesses activating in still 1/20.
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:37 am |
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GlitchyVirus
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I never DID like word problems in my math classes, so I'm just gonna do my best to translate what you said and reiterate what I said. Sorry.
A 5% chance to inflict Stun means every 5/100 or 1/20 attacks will (attempt to) cause Stun.
A 5% chance to inflict Silence means every 5/100 or 1/20 attacks will (attempt to) cause Silence.
etc...
1) So there is a 5% chance that a SPECIFIC status will be caused, but there is TECHNICALLY (take very careful note of this word) a 25% chance to cause ANY of the 5 inflictions. I understand what you said. If you want to be like that, yes, it is truly a 5%+5%+5%+5%+5%+.1% chance to inflict one status. But that does not mean 25% is not at least a CLOSE number to the generalized chance.
2) The chance still remains the same, YES, but the TIME in which a status is inflicted is DRAMMATICALLY shortened. The CHANCE remains the same, but the PROBABILITY of infliction within a CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME makes it "seem" like it has a "high chance".
3) The purpose of this topic was to find out why LoD does not work on a bow/gun/ranged weapon anylonger. We know it works with melee already. And dude, so have we. It's not like we've never had or used an LoD before.
4) Really there's no "computation" involved. It was just a fancy word I decided to use.
5) Of course luck (Chance, Probability, etc., not the stat) affects it. Luck practically affects EVERYTHING. And we have already established that Vit and Luk (The stat) reduce the chance of some statuses. None of that matters. What we're debating is whether or not the chance of a status can be considered as "high" or "low".
6) Yeah yeah. It's really a 5%+5%+5%+5%+5%+.1% chance to inflict a status. But we're lazy people. We'd rather say 25%, which is IN FACT an educated and relatively approximate guess, than what it truly is.
7) But look. Even if we consider it to be a 5%+5%+5%+5%+5%+.1% chance, that STILL equates to 1/20+1/20+1/20+1/20+1/20+.02/20 status. That STILL equals a 5.02/20 chance to status, which STILL (roughly) means 1/4 attacks will cause a GENERALIZED status.
Do you remember probability problems in your math classes? The (simple) formula is: Probability of something given (condition(s))=Possible Probability. The Possible Probability is equal to "Possible Outcome's Probability over Total Amount of Outcomes' probability (whether applicable or not)".
SO. P(Silence)=5/100, or 1/20. That is read "The probability of inflicting silence is 1 out of every 20 attacks". This is because there are 5 statuses. The Probability of any ONE status being inflicted is equal to the Possible Outcome's probability (which in this case is only ONE status that has 5% of a chance) divided by the total probability (The probability we are debating is out of 100%). P(Stun) is the same, and so on.
But look at this. P(Any Status) would be "Possible outcome over Total outcome". THIS would be 5+5+5+5+5+.01, which is 25.01. 25.01/100 is APPROXIMATELY 1/4. Now YES, this is assuming the 5 status chances stack, and YES they do not, but still, the chance remains APPROXIMATELY the same.
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:11 am |
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arjun1991
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the whole purpose of the thread has been lost...
Dylan wishes to know why the probability is higher with melee than with ranged and wether its a bug.
End.
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:33 am |
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GlitchyVirus
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| GlitchyVirus wrote: | | Lord of Death Script wrote: | | { bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Stun,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Curse,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Silence,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Poison,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus3 bAddEff,Eff_Bleeding,500,ATF_SHORT; bonus2 bWeaponComaRace,RC_NonBoss,1; },{},{} |
According to this, coma DOES work with range. Obviously it's not gonna be very likely to occur.
Other than that, I'm ASSUMING that the only reason it worked before "for like 3 seconds" was becuase the target was in "short" (as determined by the game) range. Or perhaps there is a bug that caused it to work for some reason, idk. |
/topic?
Edit: I pulled most of that stuff in part 7 out of my ass~ So Imma redo the calculations 
The 7 events are: Silence-5%, Stun-5%, External Bleeding-5%, Poison-5%, Curse-5%, Coma-.1%, No Status-74.9%. For the sake of simplicity, neglect Coma and revert "no status" to 75%.
P(Silence)=1/7, 5/100=1/20
P(Stun)=1/7, 5/100=1/20
P("A Status") or P(NOT "No Status")=6/7, 5/100+5/100+5/100+5/100+5/100=25/100=1/4
This is the way I understand it.~ I never liked probability anyway.
"Frequentists talk about probabilities only when dealing with experiments that are random and well-defined. The probability of a random event denotes the relative frequency of occurrence of an experiment's outcome, when repeating the experiment. Frequentists consider probability to be the relative frequency "in the long run" of outcomes."
Wiki on Probability
Edit 2: "If either event A or event B or both events occur on a single performance of an experiment this is called the union of the events A and B denoted as P(A u B). If two events are mutually exclusive then the probability of either occurring is P(A or B)=P(A u B)=P(A) + P(B).
For example, the chance of rolling a 1 or 2 on a six-sided die is P(1 or 2)=P(1 u 2)=1/6+1/6=2/6=1/3."
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:36 am |
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jogradz1225
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we are both saying the same thing, my computation may rather be incomplete compared to yours..
you have my respect...
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:22 pm |
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Kiku-Ichiomonjii
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Honestly jogradz1225 dude, everything you've posted sense ive seen you on the forums..are way off from right. you have good grammar but obviously he didnt mean 25% are a scripted number. quit trying to sound smart and use common sense
and the worst part, as adam has had to correct you over an over again, the question still isnt answered |
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:21 pm |
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NightShade
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"Because it's 5% Chance"
What a nub..
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:00 pm |
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GlitchyVirus
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| Post subject: Re: Lord of Death? |
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| Kiku-Ichiomonjii wrote: | Ive tryed this myself, and checked online and cant get a strait answer.
lod on a bow, does it work?
its weird cause, as i tested with a dagger, it worked great. all status in a few hits, but then a bow, i got none. randomly at some point in my testing the lod worked on my bow for like 3 seconds, and never worked again. so idk if its how close/far i am to the target or what
anyone have any imput on this? |
Only if your attacks are aimed at a target that is deemed by the game as in "short range". What that distance is, I do not know, I/Someone else would have to test it out.
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| Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:04 pm |
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