 Topic: Banning GTB |
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| Should we follow iRO Valkyrie and remove GTB from WoE? |
| Yes |
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30% |
[ 11 ] |
| No |
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69% |
[ 25 ] |
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| Total Votes : 36 |
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NightShade
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 481
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If there's more people on the server you'd have more back-up if you ever run across a person with a Gtb card. If you befriend them.
Simple.
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:20 am |
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Emma
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| Language police! Where you at?! |
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:21 am |
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ShadowNguyen91
Joined: 14 Aug 2008
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| Emma wrote: | | Language police! Where you at?! |
Please Emma I'm using light language compared to some of the stuff I've seen posted in the forums. Now back on topic.
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:24 am |
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Emma
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
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Irrelevant! You can sound "smart" by not using said words. Expand your vocabulary =/
Keep GTB as is. :3 |
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:25 am |
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ShadowNguyen91
Joined: 14 Aug 2008
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It now stands
Skye - Against banning it
Shiek - For Banning it
Trashy - Leaving it allowed but making it a %(feel free to edit if i'm wrong about this Kelly)
Luzz - No reply yet
And a community vote of 11-20
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:10 am |
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ShadowNguyen91
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Moving everything up to the current page.
For GTB getting banned:
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | Anyways, I vote for banning it, if not banning it (cause it IS banned in free iRO for those of you who're gonna say it isn't, the link is here btw http://iro.ragnarokonline.com/News/Notice/NoticeView.asp?noticeSeqNo=82&Page=2&Condition=&KeyWord=&mNum=4 and that's what all private servers are, a free version of iRO with altered rates and items.) then weaken the effect to like 50% reduction or something, cause really, when you have only 30 people playing, and around 50% are melee classes, then another like 10 - 30% use GTB as a magic user, your odds don't look to good anymore. Also, for those of you who are going to say that there are skills to eliminate physical damage, there are only a few, class specific ones (I checked up on pneuma, and it only reduces RANGED damage, not melee.) as opposed to a card that just anyone can grab, slap in their shield and rush past me like I was a ghost. So, for the record, I vote banning it. |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | NightShade wrote: | | XDoggStrafe wrote: | | NightShade wrote: | | Some things we just have to endure I guess. Besides, 1 character isn't supposed to be able to take on every class at once. Which is why keeping the GTB in would make it seem that there's always that one person you'd have to switch to a physical class to beat, or have a guildie help you out that isn't magic class. |
The original game, of RO was designed for one class to be played by one player (or something similar, not just switching when you got into trouble) and that iRO was designed for 1000's, guilds would literally be full of players for WoE (so you'd have about 50 - 70 players fighting, not just you and 4 or 5 friends) so yeah, I could rely on a guildie to help...if they were actually on and NOT a magic user.
| NightShade wrote: | | Plus, as Luzz stated once in an arguement such as this one, or debate rather. He brought up how Pneuma is a skill similar to GTB, but for Ranged users. |
Luzz stated this to me as well, but in regards to it, it's only ranged damage, they are still a physical class and could just as easily run up and smack the hell outta me, as opposed to a full out magic user being utterly useless cause of that single card.
Either way though, I still say it should be banned. |
Yeah but as you said with the numbers of the guild, what are the odds of all of them being the same class? lol Unless you're just being a ball-buster and making a guild with all 1/1 Novices <_<. 
Back on topic! |
That actually was on topic, and as I stated, GTB is too over powered for a small server, hence why I mentioned the %'s and numbers and such, if it's just me, Shadow and tomato (a wizard in my guild) and one LK with a GTB card comes into our castle, we're kinda dead now aren't we? And considering that the players who ARE on most WoE's have a high chance of having this and being an lk, then I'm sure as a group of magic users, are as done as turkey dinner on thanksgiving. |
| ShadowNguyen91 wrote: | | angrysnake wrote: | | JUST LEAVE THIS GAME AS IS. CARDS ARE PUT HERE FOR A REASON YO. JUST BECAUSE U DONT LIKE THEM DOUESNT MEAN THAT OTHER PLAYERS HAVE TO SUFFER. JUST DEAL WITH IT. AND GET OVER IT. IF A GTB USSER IS MAKING U MADE JUST GET ON ANOTHER CHAR THAT IS NOT AFFECTEF BT GTB AND WOMP THAT PLAYER |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | Dude, it's not a matter of leaving the game as is. This is how iRO does it on their valk servers, the FREE servers. Everyone complains that certain items aren't in iRO, well, GTB was taken out. Why're we still using it when aesprika was taken out awhile back? Either way, it's a suggestion to make things fair, do you play any pure magic classes snake? with only 2 donations (and only 1 allowed in pvp/woe)? It makes things really REALLY difficult to actually do. And makes magic users all but useless. Also, as far as whining cause someone with a gtb was killing me, I've only had it happen once on this server, and the LK in my group killed them. |
Snake it's a sugestion, and caps are not needed. Using caps just makes your post look like an eyesore, no offence. Back on topic though~
GTB in my opinion should never have been created.
1. It kills off 3 different classes. Professor/High Wizard, Ninja, and Priest.
2. Unlike pnumea GTB is a perminant handicap while pnuema only lasts for so long.
3. It's to over powered for our small server. Now if this were a server with 500-1000 people on daily with maybe 50 auto venders then i'd have no complaint seeing as it's a larger server and GTB would make things more balanced. |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | marine wrote: |
heh wear eddga get 25% hp less , brinhild will just make jt spam be still more nastier .
Scholars have one of the best soul links wich allow u to be a a batle profesor , u normal swing the dude and cast double bolts lvl 10 at speed of light if ur atspd is high , my char on a low was a schoolar and i finded autocaster the best , tho other schoolars were suportive. .
Aniway i voted nothing . if gtb get banned coma will get too fancy and tht is the skill tht never should exist .
Someone quoted me on other thread sayin stop comparing private servers with oficial ones . |
Ok, I could barely understand that, but I think I got the basic of it. A) Not everyone has a soul linker just sitting around ready to link them for WoE, yes we could and probably should since it's preperation for WoE. But it's not like there are 1000+ players here, there are like 30. And the majority of them are assassin crosses and lord knights in WoE.
B) On a low rate server, where everything is balanced out properly and there are more players or at least more diversity, then GTB is fine on it's own merits. It's not you playing 3 classes per WoE. Just to try to take a castle.
C) Jupital thunder spam may do more damage when you wear brynhild, but you could just as easily get up there and smack them anyways since you're not being pinballed. Right? And at least now it's a fair playing field.
D) As for the last bit there, I couldn't really get what you mean by it, but I don't think it was something constructive towards the actual goal of the topic and since I'm not gonna turn this into a flame war, I'm gonna stop typing now. |
| Glenfiddich wrote: | There is no way this will happen.
But i think it is a great idea. There are too many counteracts to magic classes at the moment (GTB, maya, reducers), all which heavily destroy the classes scholar and high wizard. I do believe this will balance out the server much, much more if it is removed.
EDIT: Oh and if a low rate server, even lower then the official iRO server believes this card is overpowered, what makes it that it isnt in this server, where the card is even more common? |
| Glenfiddich wrote: | Oh and back onto the pneuma part Luzz pointed out. i seriously dont know why you pointed that out.
There are so many ways around pneuma, and none around gtb. Pneuma only barely renders one class useless, and that is sniper really. The rest also have additional skills that avoid pnuema, such as melee, not to mention there are so many skills to push people out of pneuma (magnum break being one, which every class has access to)
Plus the short time it lasts, you can just sit your distance away from the person for what? the 5 seconds it lasts? I do not know why or even how pneuma was ever suggested to be similar to GTB, cause it doesnt really render any class useless if you know how to play your class. GTB does.
And this game was not designed to be always switching characters either, so dont say switch characters, cause thats bullshi*.
Nonetheless you could always team the gtb user  But they normally end up teaming back as well.  |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | ShadowNguyen wrote: | | Glenfiddich wrote: | | Godfather wrote: | HEY GUYS!
Fallen Bishop Hibram Card = FBHC.
Golden Thief Bug Card = GTBC.
Magic User with a FBHC. VS. Melee User with a GTBC.
Magic User with none. VS. Melee User with a GTBC.
Magic User with a FBHC. VS. Melee User with none.
Who wins in these situations? Discuss. |
1. Melee
2. Melee
3. Dependant on classes. |
1. Melee Gtb blocks the magic.
2. Melee Gtb again blocks the magic.
3. LK, Champ, Crusader, Sniper/Bard/Gypsie, Creator, Soul Linker, and maybe Mastersmith, use magic reducers physical power, ranged skills to stay out of the range of magic, soul linker natural gtb reflects magic back at caster. |
Melee user would win just about all those rounds. The only one that may be different is the third one, depending on the magic user (I.E. A ninja would have a better chance than a wizard). Also, thanks glen for agreeing with the topic, and pointing out valid points =D. Also, @ those who think this would ban the item from the server completely, just from WoE and or PvP. |
| Glenfiddich wrote: | | NightShade wrote: | I still see no reason what-so-ever in removing this card from the game.. They have GTB, so what? Make an Alt that doesn't use magic to kill them?
Makes no sense. |
Yes, it does. It renders the magic class completely 100% useless. No other card in the game can do that. I could spend thousands of dollars on this game to pro my prof/wiz/ninja up and it wouldnt change the fact that someone with gtb (which is now fairly common) would woop my ass.
You shouldnt have to make an alt to beat someone. This game wasnt designed to do that.
If there was a card that made you immune to melee or ranged damage i bet everyone would kick up a stink then. |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | @Nightshade
The reason no one complains about Maya is cause it doesn't nullify the damage, it reflects it. It's different enough, in the sense that a magic user can find a way around it. Also, @whoever said "We worked hard for it, why can't we use it in WoE/PVP" what about those of us who WORKED to make Aesprika, didn't donate for it? Why can't we use that, it's more effective than the scrolls, and it's obtainable through hard work. So, why is that it's banned from WoE but GTB isn't?
| Quote: | Glenfiddich:
If there was a card that made you immune to melee or ranged damage i bet everyone would kick up a stink then. |
I agree 100% with that one dude... -_-; |
| ShadowNguyen91 wrote: | | XDoggStrafe wrote: | @Nightshade
The reason no one complains about Maya is cause it doesn't nullify the damage, it reflects it. It's different enough, in the sense that a magic user can find a way around it. |
Examples of getting around Maya with Mage class skills only - Use Heavens Drive, Thunder Storm, Lord of Vermillion, Storm Gust, or Meteor Storm aka AoE.
Examples of getting around GTB with Mage class skills only - No possable way to get around GTB
Maya only reflect single target magic; as long as you have any AoE spell you can render maya useless. |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | angrysnake wrote: | | XDoggStrafe wrote: | | angrysnake wrote: |
because its a card not an item and not a god item |
Ok snake, it's just as cheap as a god item, if not cheaper. All the magic users want is a fair chance instead of getting shafted on everything. |
and every char over powers the other ok. if it wasnt for gtb wiz would go around and use the lighting thingy ay every one and no one would reach them and everyone would die so gtb gives a balance to that. and not a lot of peeps have it |
Ok, I can think of 3 things wrong with your last 2 posts...
1) Angra, Ahura and Aesprika were NOT meant for leveling purposes originally, they were GM items on iRO. AND Aesprika was even allowed in pvp for a time until they made the scrolls.
2) Yes, every character can over power another class, that's the point of the game, but when you get the short end of the straw on every turn, EVERY class over powers you.
3) There are at least 4 ways to Counter Jupital Thunder ASIDE from GTB. You can use Eddga Card, Endure, Maya Card and Brynhildr. All of which stop the pinball effect, which is what makes the skill deadly, and maya even reflects the damage back at the wizard. So no snake, GTB isn't the only way to counter it. I seriously think that the only reason you're arguing so hard against this is cause you spent gc's on a GTB and are afraid of losing that edge against a magic user in WoE. I'm also not too dumb to put it past that the polls may have been stuffed given the severe slide in yes vs no votes over the last day or two. |
| Glenfiddich wrote: | iRO did it. They must have had good reason to. I said this earlier, but everyone seemed to forgot. They have less gtb cards circulating through that server then we do. Yet they decided to get rid of it, because even a little amount of the cards are a pain in the ass to the server.
Big whoop if you worked hard for the card. I worked for my aesprika only to have it pulled from my grasp
Someone brought this out and i agree. There is a counter to almost anything. Then there is a gtb card, which throws everything completely out of whack. Why the hell was this card ever made. |
For GTB staying:
| NightShade wrote: | Some things we just have to endure I guess. Besides, 1 character isn't supposed to be able to take on every class at once. Which is why keeping the GTB in would make it seem that there's always that one person you'd have to switch to a physical class to beat, or have a guildie help you out that isn't magic class.
Plus, as Luzz stated once in an arguement such as this one, or debate rather. He brought up how Pneuma is a skill similar to GTB, but for Ranged users.
Just trying to share some idea's. |
| marine wrote: | | XDoggStrafe wrote: | Ever thought about using something like Eddga card? or Brynhild armor? Those are WoE legal too without the immunity, and are still fair since a wizard could actually kill you still. Where as you get a GTB, and all of a sudden 4 classes can't touch you? That doesn't really seem fair anymore.
Edit: And for the record, I can't do Jupital thunder (the little lightning ball skill) since I'm a Professor. So I'll quote you on you're response to my GTB comment and if someone's made you mad, just switch out to a different character and womp them. - have a nice day. |
heh wear eddga get 25% hp less , brinhild will just make jt spam be still more nastier .
Scholars have one of the best soul links wich allow u to be a a batle profesor , u normal swing the dude and cast double bolts lvl 10 at speed of light if ur atspd is high , my char on a low was a schoolar and i finded autocaster the best , tho other schoolars were suportive. .
Aniway i voted nothing . if gtb get banned coma will get too fancy and tht is the skill tht never should exist . |
| angrysnake wrote: | | well in my view who got a gtb card actually worked hard for it so baning the item would be stupid i will give a few reasons about it . 1- gtb is the only thing tht blocks coma , one of the most anoying skills ever (this isnt clown tarot coma , tarot works completely diferent"more info go to the source code and check tarot") so if u disapèar gtb , a huge wave of coma users Book of dead , guillotine , edge , even the underrated lods card will appear , therefore more complaining and debating will ocurr. |
| NightShade wrote: | We've both played on a server where coma ran rampant. I've been against the idea of removing it from WoE and PvP for the simple fact that - We worked for the card, why can't we use it in those situations?
I mean, yeah I'm a magic user and I don't mind people having it against me. I say we leave it be, we vote more so we can get our numbers up, and less people can complain about cards.
One thing that I find very interesting is, people say GTB is too over powered, I wonder why no one talks about Maya being a pretty damaging card aswell.
Anywho I'll leave that up for discussion. |
| Bubbaknoxz wrote: | | Look I have a GTB I hunted my ass off for it. I dont think it should be edited because it negates a whole class. I brought up the idea of removing the Ahura because it negates Stalkers, people basically told me Stalkers suck anyway (not true they are one of the best PVP classes). Get a Stalker to strip everything and be done with it, and don't give me that's hard to do crap, I would love to have Nightshade bring his stalker to this server and show you how fast it is to strip someone with the proper build. |
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:11 am |
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Glenfiddich
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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Just putting it out there, but lightning crash isnt really that much of an aoe skill. Maya and magic rod stop it.
Gtb pwns maya. End of story, there is no comparison. And there isnt that much more maya then gtb nowadays.
Ill put this out there again for people who have forgotten. Absolutely everything in this game seems to be against magic users, doesnt seem fair.
Things against melee users that everyone can use: Orc lord pretty much, and maybe reducers and such. These things make melee classes maybe a slight bit weaker.
Things against magic users everyone can use: Reducers (affects magic classes alot more then melee), maya (sort of like a magic version to orc lord, only that orc lord fails so much more), gtb(no melee comparison, wtf?). These things here completely destroy the magic class. Bit unfair on magic class players, no?
Good thing i dont play my prof that much anymore, cause the fun i used to have on him has been destroyed :O
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:28 am |
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luzz
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After reading through this whole thread (at 4am none the less), I have this to say:
I still think pneuma is just as retardedly damaging as GTB. I am a sniper. I have needs too. Yes, a sniper can walk up and punch a pneuma user. So can a magic user against a GTB user. Yes, pneuma doesn't last forever, but geez, multiple classes plus a (non-rare) card that autocast that doesn't make me feel any better. At least GTB is a pain to hunt and get the card for.
That all said (and you all know I would say it ), I think the general consensus is that GTB should not be banned from WoE/PvP, but at the same time, there is enough complaints to warrant a change.
My proposal is:
A 1 week trial where GTB blocks only 75% of magical damage while keeping all of the card's pitfalls. This way, the card is still extremely useful, but does not make magic users the snipers of pneuma.
I'll let you all comment on this proposed trial.
Thank you all for your opinion.
(Die pneuma, die!)
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:13 am |
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marine
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| luzz wrote: | After reading through this whole thread (at 4am none the less), I have this to say:
I still think pneuma is just as retardedly damaging as GTB. I am a sniper. I have needs too. Yes, a sniper can walk up and punch a pneuma user. So can a magic user against a GTB user. Yes, pneuma doesn't last forever, but geez, multiple classes plus a (non-rare) card that autocast that doesn't make me feel any better. At least GTB is a pain to hunt and get the card for.
That all said (and you all know I would say it ), I think the general consensus is that GTB should not be banned from WoE/PvP, but at the same time, there is enough complaints to warrant a change.
My proposal is:
A 1 week trial where GTB blocks only 75% of magical damage while keeping all of the card's pitfalls. This way, the card is still extremely useful, but does not make magic users the snipers of pneuma.
I'll let you all comment on this proposed trial.
Thank you all for your opinion.
(Die pneuma, die!) |
Will still gtb block coma from book of dead , edge , lod and guillotine ? Curse , and any other magic biased status effect . ?
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:16 am |
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marine
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| ShadowNguyen91 wrote: | | Emma wrote: | The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
GM votes shouldn't weigh for the entire server. Go with what the community wants. View the results of the poll. The clear winner is "No" |
Emma i know the GM votes don't weigh for the entire server but i reread the entire thread and have seen this for arguments
For GTB getting banned:
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | Anyways, I vote for banning it, if not banning it (cause it IS banned in free iRO for those of you who're gonna say it isn't, the link is here btw http://iro.ragnarokonline.com/News/Notice/NoticeView.asp?noticeSeqNo=82&Page=2&Condition=&KeyWord=&mNum=4 and that's what all private servers are, a free version of iRO with altered rates and items.) then weaken the effect to like 50% reduction or something, cause really, when you have only 30 people playing, and around 50% are melee classes, then another like 10 - 30% use GTB as a magic user, your odds don't look to good anymore. Also, for those of you who are going to say that there are skills to eliminate physical damage, there are only a few, class specific ones (I checked up on pneuma, and it only reduces RANGED damage, not melee.) as opposed to a card that just anyone can grab, slap in their shield and rush past me like I was a ghost. So, for the record, I vote banning it. |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | NightShade wrote: | | XDoggStrafe wrote: | | NightShade wrote: | | Some things we just have to endure I guess. Besides, 1 character isn't supposed to be able to take on every class at once. Which is why keeping the GTB in would make it seem that there's always that one person you'd have to switch to a physical class to beat, or have a guildie help you out that isn't magic class. |
The original game, of RO was designed for one class to be played by one player (or something similar, not just switching when you got into trouble) and that iRO was designed for 1000's, guilds would literally be full of players for WoE (so you'd have about 50 - 70 players fighting, not just you and 4 or 5 friends) so yeah, I could rely on a guildie to help...if they were actually on and NOT a magic user.
| NightShade wrote: | | Plus, as Luzz stated once in an arguement such as this one, or debate rather. He brought up how Pneuma is a skill similar to GTB, but for Ranged users. |
Luzz stated this to me as well, but in regards to it, it's only ranged damage, they are still a physical class and could just as easily run up and smack the hell outta me, as opposed to a full out magic user being utterly useless cause of that single card.
Either way though, I still say it should be banned. |
Yeah but as you said with the numbers of the guild, what are the odds of all of them being the same class? lol Unless you're just being a ball-buster and making a guild with all 1/1 Novices <_<.
Back on topic! |
That actually was on topic, and as I stated, GTB is too over powered for a small server, hence why I mentioned the %'s and numbers and such, if it's just me, Shadow and tomato (a wizard in my guild) and one LK with a GTB card comes into our castle, we're kinda dead now aren't we? And considering that the players who ARE on most WoE's have a high chance of having this and being an lk, then I'm sure as a group of magic users, are as done as turkey dinner on thanksgiving. |
| ShadowNguyen91 wrote: | | angrysnake wrote: | | JUST LEAVE THIS GAME AS IS. CARDS ARE PUT HERE FOR A REASON YO. JUST BECAUSE U DONT LIKE THEM DOUESNT MEAN THAT OTHER PLAYERS HAVE TO SUFFER. JUST DEAL WITH IT. AND GET OVER IT. IF A GTB USSER IS MAKING U MADE JUST GET ON ANOTHER CHAR THAT IS NOT AFFECTEF BT GTB AND WOMP THAT PLAYER |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | Dude, it's not a matter of leaving the game as is. This is how iRO does it on their valk servers, the FREE servers. Everyone complains that certain items aren't in iRO, well, GTB was taken out. Why're we still using it when aesprika was taken out awhile back? Either way, it's a suggestion to make things fair, do you play any pure magic classes snake? with only 2 donations (and only 1 allowed in pvp/woe)? It makes things really REALLY difficult to actually do. And makes magic users all but useless. Also, as far as whining cause someone with a gtb was killing me, I've only had it happen once on this server, and the LK in my group killed them. |
Snake it's a sugestion, and caps are not needed. Using caps just makes your post look like an eyesore, no offence. Back on topic though~
GTB in my opinion should never have been created.
1. It kills off 3 different classes. Professor/High Wizard, Ninja, and Priest.
2. Unlike pnumea GTB is a perminant handicap while pnuema only lasts for so long.
3. It's to over powered for our small server. Now if this were a server with 500-1000 people on daily with maybe 50 auto venders then i'd have no complaint seeing as it's a larger server and GTB would make things more balanced. |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | marine wrote: |
heh wear eddga get 25% hp less , brinhild will just make jt spam be still more nastier .
Scholars have one of the best soul links wich allow u to be a a batle profesor , u normal swing the dude and cast double bolts lvl 10 at speed of light if ur atspd is high , my char on a low was a schoolar and i finded autocaster the best , tho other schoolars were suportive. .
Aniway i voted nothing . if gtb get banned coma will get too fancy and tht is the skill tht never should exist .
Someone quoted me on other thread sayin stop comparing private servers with oficial ones . |
Ok, I could barely understand that, but I think I got the basic of it. A) Not everyone has a soul linker just sitting around ready to link them for WoE, yes we could and probably should since it's preperation for WoE. But it's not like there are 1000+ players here, there are like 30. And the majority of them are assassin crosses and lord knights in WoE.
B) On a low rate server, where everything is balanced out properly and there are more players or at least more diversity, then GTB is fine on it's own merits. It's not you playing 3 classes per WoE. Just to try to take a castle.
C) Jupital thunder spam may do more damage when you wear brynhild, but you could just as easily get up there and smack them anyways since you're not being pinballed. Right? And at least now it's a fair playing field.
D) As for the last bit there, I couldn't really get what you mean by it, but I don't think it was something constructive towards the actual goal of the topic and since I'm not gonna turn this into a flame war, I'm gonna stop typing now. |
| Glenfiddich wrote: | There is no way this will happen.
But i think it is a great idea. There are too many counteracts to magic classes at the moment (GTB, maya, reducers), all which heavily destroy the classes scholar and high wizard. I do believe this will balance out the server much, much more if it is removed.
EDIT: Oh and if a low rate server, even lower then the official iRO server believes this card is overpowered, what makes it that it isnt in this server, where the card is even more common? |
| Glenfiddich wrote: | Oh and back onto the pneuma part Luzz pointed out. i seriously dont know why you pointed that out.
There are so many ways around pneuma, and none around gtb. Pneuma only barely renders one class useless, and that is sniper really. The rest also have additional skills that avoid pnuema, such as melee, not to mention there are so many skills to push people out of pneuma (magnum break being one, which every class has access to)
Plus the short time it lasts, you can just sit your distance away from the person for what? the 5 seconds it lasts? I do not know why or even how pneuma was ever suggested to be similar to GTB, cause it doesnt really render any class useless if you know how to play your class. GTB does.
And this game was not designed to be always switching characters either, so dont say switch characters, cause thats bullshi*.
Nonetheless you could always team the gtb user But they normally end up teaming back as well. |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | ShadowNguyen wrote: | | Glenfiddich wrote: | | Godfather wrote: | HEY GUYS!
Fallen Bishop Hibram Card = FBHC.
Golden Thief Bug Card = GTBC.
Magic User with a FBHC. VS. Melee User with a GTBC.
Magic User with none. VS. Melee User with a GTBC.
Magic User with a FBHC. VS. Melee User with none.
Who wins in these situations? Discuss. |
1. Melee
2. Melee
3. Dependant on classes. |
1. Melee Gtb blocks the magic.
2. Melee Gtb again blocks the magic.
3. LK, Champ, Crusader, Sniper/Bard/Gypsie, Creator, Soul Linker, and maybe Mastersmith, use magic reducers physical power, ranged skills to stay out of the range of magic, soul linker natural gtb reflects magic back at caster. |
Melee user would win just about all those rounds. The only one that may be different is the third one, depending on the magic user (I.E. A ninja would have a better chance than a wizard). Also, thanks glen for agreeing with the topic, and pointing out valid points =D. Also, @ those who think this would ban the item from the server completely, just from WoE and or PvP. |
| Glenfiddich wrote: | | NightShade wrote: | I still see no reason what-so-ever in removing this card from the game.. They have GTB, so what? Make an Alt that doesn't use magic to kill them?
Makes no sense. |
Yes, it does. It renders the magic class completely 100% useless. No other card in the game can do that. I could spend thousands of dollars on this game to pro my prof/wiz/ninja up and it wouldnt change the fact that someone with gtb (which is now fairly common) would woop my ass.
You shouldnt have to make an alt to beat someone. This game wasnt designed to do that.
If there was a card that made you immune to melee or ranged damage i bet everyone would kick up a stink then. |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | @Nightshade
The reason no one complains about Maya is cause it doesn't nullify the damage, it reflects it. It's different enough, in the sense that a magic user can find a way around it. Also, @whoever said "We worked hard for it, why can't we use it in WoE/PVP" what about those of us who WORKED to make Aesprika, didn't donate for it? Why can't we use that, it's more effective than the scrolls, and it's obtainable through hard work. So, why is that it's banned from WoE but GTB isn't?
| Quote: | Glenfiddich:
If there was a card that made you immune to melee or ranged damage i bet everyone would kick up a stink then. |
I agree 100% with that one dude... -_-; |
| ShadowNguyen91 wrote: | | XDoggStrafe wrote: | @Nightshade
The reason no one complains about Maya is cause it doesn't nullify the damage, it reflects it. It's different enough, in the sense that a magic user can find a way around it. |
Examples of getting around Maya with Mage class skills only - Use Heavens Drive, Thunder Storm, Lord of Vermillion, Storm Gust, or Meteor Storm aka AoE.
Examples of getting around GTB with Mage class skills only - No possable way to get around GTB
Maya only reflect single target magic; as long as you have any AoE spell you can render maya useless. |
| XDoggStrafe wrote: | | angrysnake wrote: | | XDoggStrafe wrote: | | angrysnake wrote: |
because its a card not an item and not a god item |
Ok snake, it's just as cheap as a god item, if not cheaper. All the magic users want is a fair chance instead of getting shafted on everything. |
and every char over powers the other ok. if it wasnt for gtb wiz would go around and use the lighting thingy ay every one and no one would reach them and everyone would die so gtb gives a balance to that. and not a lot of peeps have it |
Ok, I can think of 3 things wrong with your last 2 posts...
1) Angra, Ahura and Aesprika were NOT meant for leveling purposes originally, they were GM items on iRO. AND Aesprika was even allowed in pvp for a time until they made the scrolls.
2) Yes, every character can over power another class, that's the point of the game, but when you get the short end of the straw on every turn, EVERY class over powers you.
3) There are at least 4 ways to Counter Jupital Thunder ASIDE from GTB. You can use Eddga Card, Endure, Maya Card and Brynhildr. All of which stop the pinball effect, which is what makes the skill deadly, and maya even reflects the damage back at the wizard. So no snake, GTB isn't the only way to counter it. I seriously think that the only reason you're arguing so hard against this is cause you spent gc's on a GTB and are afraid of losing that edge against a magic user in WoE. I'm also not too dumb to put it past that the polls may have been stuffed given the severe slide in yes vs no votes over the last day or two. |
| Glenfiddich wrote: | iRO did it. They must have had good reason to. I said this earlier, but everyone seemed to forgot. They have less gtb cards circulating through that server then we do. Yet they decided to get rid of it, because even a little amount of the cards are a pain in the ass to the server.
Big whoop if you worked hard for the card. I worked for my aesprika only to have it pulled from my grasp
Someone brought this out and i agree. There is a counter to almost anything. Then there is a gtb card, which throws everything completely out of whack. Why the hell was this card ever made. |
For GTB staying:
| NightShade wrote: | Some things we just have to endure I guess. Besides, 1 character isn't supposed to be able to take on every class at once. Which is why keeping the GTB in would make it seem that there's always that one person you'd have to switch to a physical class to beat, or have a guildie help you out that isn't magic class.
Plus, as Luzz stated once in an arguement such as this one, or debate rather. He brought up how Pneuma is a skill similar to GTB, but for Ranged users.
Just trying to share some idea's. |
| marine wrote: | | XDoggStrafe wrote: | Ever thought about using something like Eddga card? or Brynhild armor? Those are WoE legal too without the immunity, and are still fair since a wizard could actually kill you still. Where as you get a GTB, and all of a sudden 4 classes can't touch you? That doesn't really seem fair anymore.
Edit: And for the record, I can't do Jupital thunder (the little lightning ball skill) since I'm a Professor. So I'll quote you on you're response to my GTB comment and if someone's made you mad, just switch out to a different character and womp them. - have a nice day. |
heh wear eddga get 25% hp less , brinhild will just make jt spam be still more nastier .
Scholars have one of the best soul links wich allow u to be a a batle profesor , u normal swing the dude and cast double bolts lvl 10 at speed of light if ur atspd is high , my char on a low was a schoolar and i finded autocaster the best , tho other schoolars were suportive. .
Aniway i voted nothing . if gtb get banned coma will get too fancy and tht is the skill tht never should exist . |
| angrysnake wrote: | | well in my view who got a gtb card actually worked hard for it so baning the item would be stupid i will give a few reasons about it . 1- gtb is the only thing tht blocks coma , one of the most anoying skills ever (this isnt clown tarot coma , tarot works completely diferent"more info go to the source code and check tarot") so if u disapèar gtb , a huge wave of coma users Book of dead , guillotine , edge , even the underrated lods card will appear , therefore more complaining and debating will ocurr. |
| NightShade wrote: | We've both played on a server where coma ran rampant. I've been against the idea of removing it from WoE and PvP for the simple fact that - We worked for the card, why can't we use it in those situations?
I mean, yeah I'm a magic user and I don't mind people having it against me. I say we leave it be, we vote more so we can get our numbers up, and less people can complain about cards.
One thing that I find very interesting is, people say GTB is too over powered, I wonder why no one talks about Maya being a pretty damaging card aswell.
Anywho I'll leave that up for discussion. |
| Bubbaknoxz wrote: | | Look I have a GTB I hunted my ass off for it. I dont think it should be edited because it negates a whole class. I brought up the idea of removing the Ahura because it negates Stalkers, people basically told me Stalkers suck anyway (not true they are one of the best PVP classes). Get a Stalker to strip everything and be done with it, and don't give me that's hard to do crap, I would love to have Nightshade bring his stalker to this server and show you how fast it is to strip someone with the proper build. |
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just readed page 7 o 9 .. erm wht is this of the 3 on favour of getin it banned u quoted 3 or 4 post of each , and for against u posted 1 of ea .. if someone wants to know wht goin on they wont go on ur quote of 7 post because is a 9 pages thread ..
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:26 am |
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Seraphiel
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Virginia
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| luzz wrote: | After reading through this whole thread (at 4am none the less), I have this to say:
I still think pneuma is just as retardedly damaging as GTB. I am a sniper. I have needs too. Yes, a sniper can walk up and punch a pneuma user. So can a magic user against a GTB user. Yes, pneuma doesn't last forever, but geez, multiple classes plus a (non-rare) card that autocast that doesn't make me feel any better. At least GTB is a pain to hunt and get the card for.
That all said (and you all know I would say it ), I think the general consensus is that GTB should not be banned from WoE/PvP, but at the same time, there is enough complaints to warrant a change.
My proposal is:
A 1 week trial where GTB blocks only 75% of magical damage while keeping all of the card's pitfalls. This way, the card is still extremely useful, but does not make magic users the snipers of pneuma.
I'll let you all comment on this proposed trial.
Thank you all for your opinion.
(Die pneuma, die!) |
I think this is a most acceptable compromise. It still keeps the card pretty deadly, but it's not an end all to magic users. Maybe the chance should be raised a tad? A little testing should be able to discern this.
The only other comment I have is..... PNUEMA -hissssssssssssssssssssssssss- |
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:26 am |
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Glenfiddich
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1735
Location: Australia, Brisbane
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| luzz wrote: | After reading through this whole thread (at 4am none the less), I have this to say:
I still think pneuma is just as retardedly damaging as GTB. I am a sniper. I have needs too. Yes, a sniper can walk up and punch a pneuma user. So can a magic user against a GTB user. Yes, pneuma doesn't last forever, but geez, multiple classes plus a (non-rare) card that autocast that doesn't make me feel any better. At least GTB is a pain to hunt and get the card for.
That all said (and you all know I would say it ), I think the general consensus is that GTB should not be banned from WoE/PvP, but at the same time, there is enough complaints to warrant a change.
My proposal is:
A 1 week trial where GTB blocks only 75% of magical damage while keeping all of the card's pitfalls. This way, the card is still extremely useful, but does not make magic users the snipers of pneuma.
I'll let you all comment on this proposed trial.
Thank you all for your opinion.
(Die pneuma, die!) |
1. I have seen pro snipers own pneuma classes. Utilizing the magnum break skill works.
2. 75% is still like wtf? I propose at most 50% May as well keep it at immune to magic if you are going to make 75%
3. Lets make a card for 75% less melee damage. Just as rare of a card as well. Then you have your equalizer.
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Last edited by Glenfiddich on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:26 am |
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Seraphiel
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Virginia
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| Glenfiddich wrote: | | luzz wrote: | After reading through this whole thread (at 4am none the less), I have this to say:
I still think pneuma is just as retardedly damaging as GTB. I am a sniper. I have needs too. Yes, a sniper can walk up and punch a pneuma user. So can a magic user against a GTB user. Yes, pneuma doesn't last forever, but geez, multiple classes plus a (non-rare) card that autocast that doesn't make me feel any better. At least GTB is a pain to hunt and get the card for.
That all said (and you all know I would say it ), I think the general consensus is that GTB should not be banned from WoE/PvP, but at the same time, there is enough complaints to warrant a change.
My proposal is:
A 1 week trial where GTB blocks only 75% of magical damage while keeping all of the card's pitfalls. This way, the card is still extremely useful, but does not make magic users the snipers of pneuma.
I'll let you all comment on this proposed trial.
Thank you all for your opinion.
(Die pneuma, die!) |
1. I have seen pro snipers own pneuma classes. Utilizing the magnum break skill works.
2. 75% is still like wtf? I propose at most 50% May as well keep it at immune to magic if you are going to make 75% |
If it's only 50% I think I'd rather use Maya. I'd make it -at least- 75%. |
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:27 am |
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Glenfiddich
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1735
Location: Australia, Brisbane
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Dont know why its being kept lol. Make a melee equivalent plox.
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Jager Bomb; 255- Creator
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:28 am |
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marine
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 1389
Location: here
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1. I have seen pro snipers own pneuma classes. Utilizing the magnum break skill works.
2. 75% is still like wtf? I propose at most 50% May as well keep it at immune to magic if you are going to make 75%
1: brinhild , rsx , strong shield . fire armor .
2: is a hell card hard to get , with this it price will go down as hell mean everyone who locked 3 gtbs per day in dungeon wich i believe (notsure im not gtb hunter) it spawn each 4 hr .. plus i believe tht if it just block a % this card wont nullify coma , curse etc anymore .. welcome non skill nided coma /noctrl players .. 1 click = 2 hits -5 hits = kill .. woa even reflect dmg count as hits = afk if any melee hit u u still will have 70% chance of auto win while afk .
Edit:
Just look at the thread only 3 magic users who states i dont think i should nid to change my char or have to call friends for a gtb users out of at least 15-20 wiz profesors ninjas i see everyday . seriusly leave the card as it is pple have worked rlly hard to get this , ugh is like if i would say hwiz card should be nerfed becus i worked too hard to get 97 mdef .. or fb card should be nerfed cus just a wizy can kill u in 1 sg shot .
Aplify magic skill of wiziz = +100 % matk so the 50 % or 75% reduced by a hell hard card to get worth ugh!!
on pneuma thing idk is a skill i still think champ got enough with snap out of woe to be pneuma been taken out too . (mean i play champ during woe i have to asura yep i dun use much skill durin woe to help)
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:32 am |
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